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Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?


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I don’t really consider this that big of a game changer. Kraft was never afraid of the $150 fine he would have to pay if found guilty of a misdemeanor, he’s afraid of the league punishment and, quite honestly, I don’t think Goodell is going to be swayed by this one bit. The fact that he won’t be found guilty in criminal court won’t help him in the NFL’s circus court with the king clown himself presiding.

The NFL does not afford the presumption of innocence nor do they afford 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination and/or the right to remain silent for people they investigate.

I’m sure they’ll find him guilty, but I do wonder what a normal, fair commissioner would do here. There is no evidence that will ever be released. The only “evidence” is the word of police officers (who are now proven liars/exaggerators) that they claim they saw a video of him which they cannot release. Definitely enough for Goodell, since he only cares about public image, but I do wonder what a real commissioner would do here. It’s quite possible that Kraft would just admit what he did behind closed doors if the commissioner weren’t a backstabbing unfathomable POS.
 
Okay ... so let's get to the next level ...
If there's no evidence of a * ...
... and Kraft was in an otherwise legal establishment.
Goodell cannot possibly suspend him ... probably will but Kraft should fight it if ........
 
Kraft does come off as a hypocrite folding so fast and repeatedly on Brady's witchhunt balls and Belichick's camera recordings, and then fighting these charges to himself so hard.
 
...mislead. Yeah, yeah that's it...mislead. :rolleyes:

For most people abductive reasoning allows if it walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck it's fair logic to call it a duck until proven otherwise. In the argument addicted however nothing short of an autopsy that they attend can confirm it was in fact a duck

Isn’t it bad form for a mod to throw insults at board members. Perhaps you should grow up.

No. It isn’t bad form. And you’re talking to one of the more level-headed, mature posters on this board.
 
Okay ... so let's get to the next level ...
If there's no evidence of a * ...
... and Kraft was in an otherwise legal establishment.
Goodell cannot possibly suspend him ... probably will but Kraft should fight it if ........
We’ve been down the suspend with no evidence road, very painfully, before.
 
No. It isn’t bad form. And you’re talking to one of the more level-headed, mature posters on this board.
Level-headed nature posters don’t throw out ad hominem attack’s against posters. It was a rhetorical question.
 
I don’t really consider this that big of a game changer. Kraft was never afraid of the $150 fine he would have to pay if found guilty of a misdemeanor, he’s afraid of the league punishment and, quite honestly, I don’t think Goodell is going to be swayed by this one bit. The fact that he won’t be found guilty in criminal court won’t help him in the NFL’s circus court with the king clown himself presiding.

The NFL does not afford the presumption of innocence nor do they afford 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination and/or the right to remain silent for people they investigate.

I disagree. I don't think it was the misdemeanor conviction or league punishment that was driving the bus at all. I believe it was the video. The man has children and grandchildren, they'd have to live their lives with the shame of that video being out there til the end of time. None of us is the person our dogs and grandkids think we are but there isn't infamous video of our most embarrassing failures floating around...
 
What a ****ing disappointment! The corruption just never ends.
 
I have better things to do than to ever again have any kind of discussion with you.
Funny you say that when you wrote posts about me out of the blue.

Worse that you think Brady getting railroaded is a non-issue.
 
Andy you were wrong. Doesn't it make you wonder that virtually everyone has interpreted what you vomited non stop for so long pretty much the same way? If we are all wrong then you have to work on your debating skills
 
Of course it was. Because what happened actually happened.
What do you expect me to say? People guessing were right. That doesn’t mean relying on facts before judging is wrong.

Translation: Even though I was wrong the people who were right were actually just guessing and not using facts therefore they're even more wrong despite being right!
 
Just a thought but it seems as though given the news this thread might have earned it's way back to the main board
Well until it ends up in a never ending loop like this one has.
 
Well until it ends up in a never ending loop like this one has.

I was just considering this thread could be placed on the main board and the active one might be added to this one...before it all eventually makes it's way back here cause...loop
 
Translation: Even though I was wrong the people who were right were actually just guessing and not using facts therefore they're even more wrong despite being right!
No. Translation: people were saying they knew what happened without proof.
I was saying I will assume things were done properly until there is proof they were not.
People twisted that into arguing I said things I didn’t, such as I am certain the police did no wrong, I support them doing wrong and a bunch of crap like that.
Ultimately they guessed right. Good for them. That doesn’t make “wait for the facts” wrong.
 
Florio's fine for data accumulation. His opinions are often complete horse ****, even in areas where you'd think he'd be offering solid takes.
Considering he is a lawyer by trade, one would assume that he would understand that one has the right to defend themselves when accused.
 
All of the reasons cited by the judge were exactly on par with what everyone (minus one) posted in that thread. And with the help of @venecol ‘s court documents which everyone (minus one) agreed exposed the operation as a clearly illegal police surveillance trick. The only thing most were hoping for was that the Florida judicial system had not built some kind of terrible precedents (which would eventually need to be overturned by SCOTUS) to allow this to happen, which we now know they did not.

The judge cited all of the clear reasons why this was illegal. And a lot of credit to many members of this forum who, despite not being lawyers, used their critical thinking skills to easily predict the outcome. This message board is probably the only place in the US outside of Kraft’s attorneys that saw this ruling coming and studied the case thoroughly. That’s awesome.

1. The warrant was built on false pretenses. This was agreed upon by virtually all forum members, that the PD had a very weak probable cause that there was a major sex trafficking operation. Venecol posted a document whereby the lead detective admits he found his “probable cause” on a website, and there was no evidence of trafficking (just misdemeanor sex acts.)

2. Common sense tells us that there are never videos like this released, so police would need to act with extreme caution to balance privacy with public safety. It was obvious from their records, length of time recording, number of people recorded, sloppy process, and lack of any ongoing evidence, that this was a massive invasion of privacy. “Expectation of privacy” was cited numerous times in the thread, and the judge used those exact words.

3. Many also brought up the traffic stop as a classic illegal tactic, which again the judge confirmed.

4. The communications between the prosecutors and defense attorneys, as Venecol provided, showed one side (Kraft) as reasonable and having a strong case and the other (prosecution) appearing to have absolutely nothing, not even appropriate responses, childish antics, and a total lack of justification for the warrant.

If there was any doubt about who gets the benefit of the doubt, the PD clearly lied from the beginning about the sex trafficking scandal and tried a pathetic PR campaign, claiming this was an “international operation” because the masseuse was Chinese (lol).

I don’t care about Kraft, but this case hits home for me. Surveillance is something that I think is an important issue for me and my kids, and it’s good anytime you expose secret campaigns like this. It was a pleasure participating in the thread with a very satisfying and just outcome. Thanks one more time to @venecol , whose excellent research gave us all (minus one) a really good inside look at the case as it unfolded.
 
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