May 7th fast approaches...

patfanken said:

Quick question. Would it be possible to give Brady say a 10 year contract such that whatever up front money would be spread out THAT long. Given what the cap is and what is looks like and like it will looik down the road, having something like $3-5mm/yr in dead money every year, long after Brady retires is a small price to pay to have cap space NOW and next year to add significant players to the roster as needed.

Right now Miguel says we have $14MM in cap space, but that is a phony number since he has already stated we will need around $5MM to sign all the rookies. So we really only have $9MM available to sign players. Lets assume whatever contract Valdheer signs takes up around $3MM for this year. That leaves $6MM more for FA's. And then there is the fact that Pats like to keep that kind of space available for potential inseason moves.

So right now, we really don't have ANY cap space left to sign new veteran FA's past Valdheer......UNLESS Brady restructures....and I'm assuming that won't happen until after 6/1, though they really need to do it....like NOW!

But let me know if its allowable to sign Brady to something like a Bobby Bonilla kind of a deal

Click to expand...

UptownPatsFan said:

Bailey or Corey Liguet please.

Click to expand...

UptownPatsFan said:

Bailey or Corey Liguet please.

Click to expand...

mgteich said:

Brady has a $15M salary. yes, much of this can be put into future dead money.

so sad

The patriots won the Super Bowl and will be at least as strong as last year. And you want to move lots of money into future dead money, something the team has never done. And why? because you think that signing a couple of additional free agents will make all the difference this year, and because the future just doesn't matter. After all, we'll be gone after Brady, won't we? Well, we won't!! belichick will operate as he always has.

There are several players whose contract can be restructured. Many millions can be moved forward. After all, there are lots of ways that involved creating dead money. For example, Hightower can be extended.

The patriots are in better position that any other team, by far. We need to sign a DT and a TE. That will happen.

Click to expand...

patfanken said:

Did you even READ what I wrote at all. Your reply certainly questions whether you did.

Let me try AGAIN!

I want to know if a long term Brady extension (say 10 years) would be legal given the the contract could be viewed as a method to circumvent the salary cap since it would last long after Brady's career would be over. That was the first question I asked since if they could do a 10 year deal for him it would be a way to give Brady a $40 0r $50MM dollar signing bonus on a deal and still create some cap space over the next couple of years since they can amortize the signing bonus over the 10 years, even after Brady retires.

I am NOT promoting having large dead money hits like you implied. Just the opposite I was looking for ways to LOWER that dead cap money hit by spreading it out over a longer period of time....IF it were legal to do it like that.

Your remarks on the Pats superbowl win or if they are as strong this year are IRRELEVANT. THIS is the topic. The reality is that we are somewhat limited in our ability to sign any FA's of significance. A Tom Brady extension is one of the very few areas where the team can create any major increases to our cap space. I've read (including your own suggestion) Brady deals that could create around $7-11MM more cap space. All these suggestions were based on 3 or 4 year contracts. I just asked the question of whether making it a LONGER contract might create even more space......IF it were legal to do so. (again)

So when I read your reply I was kind of flabbergasted. Since it sounded like you were replying to a DIFFERENT post from what I wrote and never even bothered to answer the key question I asked.

BTW- I agree we WILL need to sign an additional DT and DE, though I question where the space is going to come from IF we agree that we need $5MM to sign our rookies and have $5-7MM available for wiggle room during the season.

Miguel has us currently at $14MM for the 51 top salaries. That will lower by $1MM when 53 players count. It will lower by $5MM for the rookies and it will lower by at least a few million for the Valdheer addition. So are you saying the DT and DE FA's that we will sign over the next few months are both going to be on vet minimum deals, because unless we go into the season with NO wiggle room, that about what we can afford....IF there is no Brady extension.

Click to expand...

patfanken said:

Did you even READ what I wrote at all. Your reply certainly questions whether you did.

Let me try AGAIN!

I want to know if a long term Brady extension (say 10 years) would be legal given the the contract could be viewed as a method to circumvent the salary cap since it would last long after Brady's career would be over. That was the first question I asked since if they could do a 10 year deal for him it would be a way to give Brady a $40 0r $50MM dollar signing bonus on a deal and still create some cap space over the next couple of years since they can amortize the signing bonus over the 10 years, even after Brady retires.

I am NOT promoting having large dead money hits like you implied. Just the opposite I was looking for ways to LOWER that dead cap money hit by spreading it out over a longer period of time....IF it were legal to do it like that.

Your remarks on the Pats superbowl win or if they are as strong this year are IRRELEVANT. THIS is the topic. The reality is that we are somewhat limited in our ability to sign any FA's of significance. A Tom Brady extension is one of the very few areas where the team can create any major increases to our cap space. I've read (including your own suggestion) Brady deals that could create around $7-11MM more cap space. All these suggestions were based on 3 or 4 year contracts. I just asked the question of whether making it a LONGER contract might create even more space......IF it were legal to do so. (again)

So when I read your reply I was kind of flabbergasted. Since it sounded like you were replying to a DIFFERENT post from what I wrote and never even bothered to answer the key question I asked.

BTW- I agree we WILL need to sign an additional DT and DE, though I question where the space is going to come from IF we agree that we need $5MM to sign our rookies and have $5-7MM available for wiggle room during the season.

Miguel has us currently at $14MM for the 51 top salaries. That will lower by $1MM when 53 players count. It will lower by $5MM for the rookies and it will lower by at least a few million for the Valdheer addition. So are you saying the DT and DE FA's that we will sign over the next few months are both going to be on vet minimum deals, because unless we go into the season with NO wiggle room, that about what we can afford....IF there is no Brady extension.

Click to expand...

AndyJohnson said:

The remaining signing bonus would all accelerate into the year he retires.

Click to expand...

patfanken said:

Quick question. Would it be possible to give Brady say a 10 year contract such that whatever up front money would be spread out THAT long.

Click to expand...

Right now Miguel says we have $14MM in cap space, but that is a phony number since he has already stated we will need around $5MM to sign all the rookies.

Click to expand...

Miguel said:

No. Signing bonuses can only be prorated over 5 years.



Used to say $3M. Should be $2.46M.

Click to expand...

patfanken said:

Did you even READ what I wrote at all. Your reply certainly questions whether you did.

Let me try AGAIN!

I want to know if a long term Brady extension (say 10 years) would be legal given the the contract could be viewed as a method to circumvent the salary cap since it would last long after Brady's career would be over. That was the first question I asked since if they could do a 10 year deal for him it would be a way to give Brady a $40 0r $50MM dollar signing bonus on a deal and still create some cap space over the next couple of years since they can amortize the signing bonus over the 10 years, even after Brady retires.

I am NOT promoting having large dead money hits like you implied. Just the opposite I was looking for ways to LOWER that dead cap money hit by spreading it out over a longer period of time....IF it were legal to do it like that.

Your remarks on the Pats superbowl win or if they are as strong this year are IRRELEVANT. THIS is the topic. The reality is that we are somewhat limited in our ability to sign any FA's of significance. A Tom Brady extension is one of the very few areas where the team can create any major increases to our cap space. I've read (including your own suggestion) Brady deals that could create around $7-11MM more cap space. All these suggestions were based on 3 or 4 year contracts. I just asked the question of whether making it a LONGER contract might create even more space......IF it were legal to do so. (again)

So when I read your reply I was kind of flabbergasted. Since it sounded like you were replying to a DIFFERENT post from what I wrote and never even bothered to answer the key question I asked.

BTW- I agree we WILL need to sign an additional DT and DE, though I question where the space is going to come from IF we agree that we need $5MM to sign our rookies and have $5-7MM available for wiggle room during the season.

Miguel has us currently at $14MM for the 51 top salaries. That will lower by $1MM when 53 players count. It will lower by $5MM for the rookies and it will lower by at least a few million for the Valdheer addition. So are you saying the DT and DE FA's that we will sign over the next few months are both going to be on vet minimum deals, because unless we go into the season with NO wiggle room, that about what we can afford....IF there is no Brady extension.

Click to expand...

DarrylS said:

I'm reading where Veldheer is signing a 1 year contract worth up to 6.5 million, no idea of how it is structured.. but that will be on next years cap..

What signing Jared Veldheer means for the Patriots

Click to expand...

captain stone said:

$3.5M pretty much guaranteed just by showing up, plus $3M in incentives.
Let's hope that he doesn't have to collect Any of those incentives, and he remains merely an expensive insurance policy.

Click to expand...

captain stone said:

$3.5M pretty much guaranteed just by showing up, plus $3M in incentives.
Let's hope that he doesn't have to collect Any of those incentives, and he remains merely an expensive insurance policy.

Click to expand...

Miguel said:

No. Signing bonuses can only be prorated over 5 years.



Used to say $3M. Should be $2.46M.

Click to expand...

patfanken said:

. That was the first question I asked since if they could do a 10 year deal for him it would be a way to give Brady a $40 0r $50MM dollar signing bonus on a deal and still create some cap space over the next couple of years since they can amortize the signing bonus over the 10 years, even after Brady retires.

I am NOT promoting having large dead money hits like you implied. Just the opposite I was looking for ways to LOWER that dead cap money hit by spreading it out over a longer period of time....IF it were legal to do it like that.

Click to expand...

mgteich said:

I have read your posts. I just disagree with lots of what you say.

YES, it is legal to push money into the future and put a drag on future teams. I'll make a list in my next post. And yes, the failure to maximize the current cap limits the ability to sign players. That's simply a choice, maximize current spending (and pay in the future), or spread out spending along with payment.

You say that spreading contracts over more years somehow pushing less money forward, or making dead money less. That simply isn't true. Look at Brady's current contract.
We could take $14M of Brady contract and spread it over 6 years. Alf spread over 7 years, we could free up $12M in the current year. For me, and for the patriots since Belichick has been here, that is a terrible idea. That's my opinion. I would like the next 3 years to be something like $21M, $23M and $27M of cap with ZERO unamortized money in 2022 if Brady leaves after 2021. I suspect that we may put a bit of drag on the future, but not much,

We probably are using "dead money" in different ways. For me, dead money is money from previous years, that is, by definition a drag on the current cap after first couple of years. For example, Brady has $12M of unamortized bonus, some from his current contract, some from the contract before. For me, the patriots go out of their way to minimize the amounts pushed forwards. The team does NOT try maximize the amount available in the current year, as many other teams do.

Click to expand...

patfanken said:

Well Miguel and Andy actually answered the question I asked and it seems clear that the kind of 10 year contract I asked about isn't possible under the current CBA.

Andy said when a player retires any future cap hits become accelerated to the day of his retirement. Miguel just posted that you can only prorate bonuses 5 years. (he also corrected me that the cost of signing our rookies will only be $2.5MM) So with both those pieces of information (that I expected to get from you) make pretty much everything I posted on the subject moot. But here's what is true about what I wrote.

1. The Pats don't have a lot of money to pay for the DT and DE we need to add before camp. Here's what we have right now.

$14MM after the Gordon money was added while he's on suspension.

LESS the 2.5MM for the rookie signings

LESS whatever cap hit the Valdheer signing brings. They say it maxes out at $6.5MM, I'm HOPING that the actual cap hit will end up being closer to $4MM. Not much you can hide in a one year contract. But we'll see in a couple of days

LESS whatever wriggle room money the FO deems necessary to keep for emergencies. Let's say $5MM, though I think its a bit more.

So that leaves us around $3MM to sign any new players before the expected Brady extension. So Iggy or Alan or Suh (not that I want him) aren't really options. So while the Valdheer signing seems to be a good one. We are now very limited in what we can do as we enter round 2 of the FA season

BTW- the longer this goes on the better I like the idea of signing Danny Shelton on a cheap deal. I'm hoping that his sometimes disappointing year last season was due to severe culture shock. He did a great job at the Superbowl.

Click to expand...