What QB does Stidham compare himself to?

TheBostonStraggler · May 5, 2019

Deus Irae said:
I don't want to rain on Stidham's parade, and he's welcome to compare himself to anyone he wants. But, here's the reality of being taken as the #7, or later, QB in a draft. Since the Brady year, here's what you can expect:

2001:
Jesse Palmer, Mike McMahaon, A.J. Feeley, Josh Booty, Josh Heupel

2002:
Randy Fasani, Kurt Kittner, Brandon Noman, Craig Nall, J.T. O'Sullivan, Steve Bellisari, Seth Burford, Jeff Kelly, Ronald Curry, Wes Pate

2003:
Seneca Wallace, Brian St. Pierre, Drew Henson, Brooks, Bollinger, Kliff Kingsbury, Gibran Hamdan, Ken Dorsey

2004:
Craig Krenzell, Andy Hall, Josh Harris, Jim Sorgi, Jeff Smoker, John Navarre, Cody Pickett, Casey Bramlet, Matt Mauck, B.J. Symons, Bradlee Van Pelt

2005:
Kyle Orton, Stefan Lefors, Dan Orlovsky, Adrian McPherson, Derek Anderson, James Kilian, Matt Cassel, Ryan Fitzpatrick

2006:
Brodie Croyle, Ingle Martin, Omar Jacobs, Reggie McNeal, Bruce Gradkowski, D.J. Shockley

2007:
Isaiah Stanback, Jeff Rowe, Troy Smith, Jordan Palmer, Tyler Thigpen

2008:
Dennis Dixon, Josh Johnson, Erik Ainge, Colt Brennan, Andre Woodson, Matt Flynn, Alex Brink

2009:
Nate Davis, Tom Brandstater, Mike Teel, Keith Null, Curtis Painter

2010:
Jonathan Crompton, Rusty Smith, Dan LaFevour, Joe Webb, Tony Pike, Levi Brown, Sean Canfield, Zac Robinson

2011:
Ryan Mallett, Ricky Stanzi, T.J. Yates, Nathan Enderle, Tyrod Taylor, Greg McElroy

2012:
Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins, Ryan Lindley, B.J. Coleman, Chandler Harnish

2013:
Landry Jones, Brad Sorensen, Zac Dysert, B.J. Daniels, Sean Renfree

2014:
Tom Savage, Aaron Murray, A.J. McCarron, Zach Mettenberger, David Fales, Keith Wenning, Tajh Boyd, Garrett Gilbert

2015:
Trevor Semian

2016:
Connor Cook, Dak Prescott, Cardale Jones, Kevin Hogan, Nate Sudfeld, Jake Rudock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brandon Doughty

2017:
Joshua Dubbs, Nathan Peterman, Brad Kaaya, Chad Kelly

2018:
Kyle Lauletta, Mike White, Luke Falk, Tanner Lee, Danny Etling, Alex McGough, Logan Woodside

DraftHistory.com

So you're saying there's a chance? Yes!!

long distance · May 5, 2019

BaconGrundleCandy said:
There's a lot to like about Stidham. I gave him a 3rd & actually really like him but beung honest about his concerns/flaws, w/e you want to call it isn't a bad thing at all.

No doubt. And it was done to a point in other threads and especially on draft board.
That post wasn't that though.

I didn't watch much tape lately. As much as i can recall he was as clutch as anybody in 2017 and running for his life in 2018. I posted Nagy's take in the other thread that corresponded with my sense that it is very hard to evaluate QB play with zero protection (OL+RB+TE) and poor supporting cast. Dan O did a nice job considering and Nagy's double inside take is all the more valuable in this situation (and you know well how i respect and appreciate your take and our draft board's).

I don't know how his Foxboro destiny will turn out but saying he has no chance at this point will always be quite silly. Its like a groundhog day here with experienced, serious posters declaring TC boring since all 53 jobs are already taken etc etc

It is probably as silly of me to expect this board to welcome new QB with a little more excitement and open mind..

Deus Irae · May 5, 2019

patsfan13 said:
Remind me who was the #7 QB taken in the 2000 draft?
Jusat curious.

C'mon, man. It's literally right freakin' there, in my post.

Deus Irae said:
Since the Brady year, here's what you can expect

Nehalem · May 5, 2019

Deus Irae said:
I don't want to rain on Stidham's parade, and he's welcome to compare himself to anyone he wants. But, here's the reality of being taken as the #7, or later, QB in a draft. Since the Brady year, here's what you can expect:

2001:
Jesse Palmer, Mike McMahaon, A.J. Feeley, Josh Booty, Josh Heupel

2002:
Randy Fasani, Kurt Kittner, Brandon Noman, Craig Nall, J.T. O'Sullivan, Steve Bellisari, Seth Burford, Jeff Kelly, Ronald Curry, Wes Pate

2003:
Seneca Wallace, Brian St. Pierre, Drew Henson, Brooks, Bollinger, Kliff Kingsbury, Gibran Hamdan, Ken Dorsey

2004:
Craig Krenzell, Andy Hall, Josh Harris, Jim Sorgi, Jeff Smoker, John Navarre, Cody Pickett, Casey Bramlet, Matt Mauck, B.J. Symons, Bradlee Van Pelt

2005:
Kyle Orton, Stefan Lefors, Dan Orlovsky, Adrian McPherson, Derek Anderson, James Kilian, Matt Cassel, Ryan Fitzpatrick

2006:
Brodie Croyle, Ingle Martin, Omar Jacobs, Reggie McNeal, Bruce Gradkowski, D.J. Shockley

2007:
Isaiah Stanback, Jeff Rowe, Troy Smith, Jordan Palmer, Tyler Thigpen

2008:
Dennis Dixon, Josh Johnson, Erik Ainge, Colt Brennan, Andre Woodson, Matt Flynn, Alex Brink

2009:
Nate Davis, Tom Brandstater, Mike Teel, Keith Null, Curtis Painter

2010:
Jonathan Crompton, Rusty Smith, Dan LaFevour, Joe Webb, Tony Pike, Levi Brown, Sean Canfield, Zac Robinson

2011:
Ryan Mallett, Ricky Stanzi, T.J. Yates, Nathan Enderle, Tyrod Taylor, Greg McElroy

2012:
Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins, Ryan Lindley, B.J. Coleman, Chandler Harnish

2013:
Landry Jones, Brad Sorensen, Zac Dysert, B.J. Daniels, Sean Renfree

2014:
Tom Savage, Aaron Murray, A.J. McCarron, Zach Mettenberger, David Fales, Keith Wenning, Tajh Boyd, Garrett Gilbert

2015:
Trevor Semian

2016:
Connor Cook, Dak Prescott, Cardale Jones, Kevin Hogan, Nate Sudfeld, Jake Rudock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brandon Doughty

2017:
Joshua Dubbs, Nathan Peterman, Brad Kaaya, Chad Kelly

2018:
Kyle Lauletta, Mike White, Luke Falk, Tanner Lee, Danny Etling, Alex McGough, Logan Woodside

DraftHistory.com

So in the last 7 years you have one SB MVP and one NFL rookie of the year.

Though I admit its unlikely Stidham wins rookie of the year.

For fun the last 7 first QBs taken

Mayfield, Trubisky, Goff, Winston, Bortles, EJ Manuel, Luck.

No SB MVPs there

Deus Irae · May 5, 2019

Nehalem said:
So in the last 7 years ...

I actually wanted to touch on the strangeness of the 2012 draft, but it would have taken this thread even further afield, and I skipped it. I'll just note that QBs #3-5 were always dubious selections at the point they were taken.

Wozzy · May 5, 2019

Go look at all the QB misses taken in early rounds as well, there are a lot of busts. There aren't a lot of QB's to be had in every draft class, sometimes two or three, some are deeper than others, but no position relies more on the environment they are thrust into than QB's. 1st round picks have more inherent value than 4th round picks, this isn't revelatory...

There are simply less QB's than defensive backs in each draft class, and there is always a severe need by some teams, and very QB's few wind up in programs built for success. A good prospect in a great program has a higher probability for success.

Andrew Luck with Ryan Grigson and a pill popping owner has to go to Oslo to get stem cells pumped into his shoulder a few years in...

Deus Irae · May 5, 2019

Wozzy said:
Go look at all the QB misses taken in early rounds as well, there are a lot of busts. There aren't a lot of QB's to be had in every draft class, sometimes two or three, some are deeper than others, but no position relies more on the environment they are thrust into than QB's. 1st round picks have more inherent value than 4th round picks, this isn't revelatory...

There are simply less QB's than defensive backs in each draft class, and there is always a severe need by some teams, and very QB's few wind up in programs built for success. A good prospect in a great program has a higher probability for success.

Andrew Luck with Ryan Grigson and a pill popping owner has to go to Oslo to get stem cells pumped into his shoulder a few years in...

For QBs, the round isn't really determinative in the modern draft, especially with all the early over drafting at the position. Spot among the total QBs drafted is more important. But, if you're looking at rounds, the problem is much more likely to be teams gambling too high for QB than it is for teams missing out on high level QBs who find their way to the bottom of the draft.

And a lot of that is because of something you mentioned, which is the paucity of NFL level QBs in the drafts.

Chevrolet · May 6, 2019

Chevrolet said:
Can not teach pocket presence. Either have it by the time of the draft or don't. Yes Stidham is good looking and he may be a decent back up, but he is NOT Brady's replacement and never will be.

Yes, I probably overstated the situation on him. I guess I just meant to voice the opinion that some QB traits are more difficult to coach than others. In my view pocket presence is part of a QB's DNA by the time they are a senior in college. It is not impossible for him to improve, of course not. But in my view, it is a bot of a longshot.
Has nothing to do with courage. It is more an innate sense of when the time to throw the ball safely is over.

I hope he succeeds. He seems like a nice kid. His performance last year was not a promising indicator of future success.

Ice_Ice_Brady · May 6, 2019

He’ll be better than Hackenberg, Sanchez, Geno Smith and probably Darnold. So it’s a long-shot but possible he makes the roster.

Wozzy · May 6, 2019

Deus Irae said:
For QBs, the round isn't really determinative in the modern draft, especially with all the early over drafting at the position. Spot among the total QBs drafted is more important. But, if you're looking at rounds, the problem is much more likely to be teams gambling too high for QB than it is for teams missing out on high level QBs who find their way to the bottom of the draft.

And a lot of that is because of something you mentioned, which is the paucity of NFL level QBs in the drafts.

Agreed, and had Stidham exited in 2017 it's likely he is a 2nd rounder, or 3rd rounder max. Kizer was the first and only QB taken in the second round, Davis Webb the first QB taken in the 3rd. I'm fairly certain Stidham regrets not taking the advice that had him leaving after that very productive sophomore season. But it could turn out to be most fortuitous for both him and the Patriots that he didn't.

I'd suggest that the Patriots got a QB in the 4th round with a 3rd or even 2nd round grade, his misfortune and that of Auburn could be a boon to the Patriots. But only time will tell...

Great quote from Mike Reiss's latest ESPN piece...

Former Patriots scout Jim Nagy, who now serves as executive director of the Senior Bowl, was gracious with his time in sharing thoughts about the Patriots' draft picks who participated in the game:

"My first exposure to Jarrett was at Auburn's pro day two years ago. He was just lighting it up. I don't know if you've seen him throw live yet, but he's the most beautiful thrower of the football in this year's draft class. He was so accurate that day to all levels, I grabbed a couple buddies on the coaching staff and asked, 'Is this him every day or is this an aberration?' They were like, 'This is him every day.' So my first exposure to Jarrett was so good, I've been on the bandwagon since. ... Now Auburn didn't have the year they were supposed to have this year and the fan base was disappointed. And Jarrett will tell you he didn't have the season he wanted, either. But when you evaluate the quarterback position, even more so than the other positions, you have to evaluate what's going on around the quarterback. It was just kind of a s---storm: A young offensive line that never jelled, they had protection issues with their young running backs ... but Jarrett became the whipping boy. I went to bat for him. I think Jarrett could end up as one of the steals of the draft. The popular narrative of this year's draft was that there were the four quarterbacks -- [Dwayne] Haskins, [Kyler] Murray, [Drew] Lock and [Daniel] Jones -- and then the next tier of [Will] Grier, Stidham, [Ryan] Finley, [Clayton] Thorson. To me, there wasn't a big shelf between the two groups at all. So to get Jarrett Stidham in the fourth round, he could potentially be the next guy."

www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4817497/tom-bradys-connection-with-tyler-vrabel-reflects-passage-of-time

PatsDeb · May 6, 2019

long distance said:
Id pay a dollar for your archive take on Brady's pick on that fine April 16th 2000.
Maybe two.

Here's mine. We had a friend that went to Michigan and he was psyched at the Brady pick. He told us Brady was really good. We were like, "Yeah, right. You're just a Michigan homer..."

DarrylS · May 6, 2019

If confidence is a necessary quality, Stidham has met that criteria...

ChessToCheckers · May 6, 2019

Yeah .... I'm just afraid Stidham is going to fall off the Cliff!

Sfpat · May 6, 2019

Chevrolet said:
Can not teach pocket presence. Either have it by the time of the draft or don't. Yes Stidham is good looking and he may be a decent back up, but he is NOT Brady's replacement and never will be.

Usually we wait until rookie mini-camp to declare them busts

Simpelton · May 6, 2019

ChrisR2223 said:
So we have a QB type.
Im curious why the Brisset pick then.

Because the draft value equation favored picking Brissett in the 4th round that year and BB may have a "type," but he's not dumb enough to ignore value that falls outside that type.

Brissett is a solid mid tier QB. He's not a star, but he's roughly on a parallel with guys like Tyrod Taylor, Matt Cassell, Larry Fitzgerald, guys like that have value if plan A doesn't materialize and you need to get through a season without being entirely unwatchable. I don't think Indy is complaining about his performance post trade, especially with the context of the Luck injury and the fact that the consensus is that the Colts roster was extremely poor that year.

If all we got out of him was the 3 games he played during the Defamegate suspension it would have been a good ROI considering the team won 2 of his games and he played a big role in setting up the Revenge Tour. Add to that that Phillip Dorsett came back for him and made some pretty big catches at key moments in the playoffs this year, I don't think we need to sweat the Brissett pick at all.

Simpelton · May 6, 2019

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:
I got ill at the "I was a big Peyton Manning fan" comment and never recovered

Oh stop. Manning hate is almost as stupid and unproductive as Brady hate. Manning is easily the second best quarterback of his era, and is absolutely deserving of respect.

NG Pats Fan · May 6, 2019

I dislike this pick. We could have had Will Grier in round 3. He is a legitimate franchise QB in my eyes, way more accurate than Stidham throwing the football

ctpatsfan77 · May 6, 2019

Simpelton said:
Oh stop. Manning hate is almost as stupid and unproductive as Brady hate. Manning is easily the second best quarterback of his era, and is absolutely deserving of respect.

Grudging respect, maybe.

Not exactly hard to find fault with a QB who routinely hangs his receivers out to dry and was credibly accused of sexual harassment.

Ring 6 · May 6, 2019

ctpatsfan77 said:
Grudging respect, maybe.

Not exactly hard to find fault with a QB who routinely hangs his receivers out to dry and was credibly accused of sexual harassment.

And holds the record for one and dones.

Deus Irae · May 6, 2019

NG Pats Fan said:
I dislike this pick. We could have had Will Grier in round 3. He is a legitimate franchise QB in my eyes, way more accurate than Stidham throwing the football

Time to head in for a vision check.

What QB does Stidham compare himself to?

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