Let's Play "This was the TE to take"

Simpelton said:

yes.

Because no matter what, losing Gronk, we are going to be lots, lots weaker at the TE position. Especially with Allen also moving on.

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Losing Gronk, yes.
But the Pats lost Gronk in 2017.
Robert Gronkowski played last year, and at least as a receiver was closer to league average.
They could gain more production from the TE position in 2019 than they did in 2018 - but adding talent would sure help.
Losing Gronk doesn't mean giving up. And it's not like the Pats are so dominating at receiver that teams will have to overcompensate to shut down their receiving threat.

I didn't agree with Bill's decision to trade 56 & 101 for 45; but if he really Really had to make that deal, then I would've much Much preferred Irv Smith to JoeSlo Willies.

And his decision to pick Yet Another DB in the 7th round instead of Caleb Wilson or Dax Raymond was typical OCD silliness from Foxborough.

But the decision that really Really REALLY pisses me off the most is the drafting of a feckin RB instead of what should've been the Obvious Choice: TE Dawson Knox. As soon as Houston took away Kahale Warring, then the choice Bill needed to make should've been obvious to the world.

We always think that some 3rd or 4th rounder is better for our system than the folks that we have. Belichick probably liked LeCosse and Anderson better than anyone in the draft not named Henderson or Fant.

In any case, why should Belichick have drafted a backup TE so highly if he thought of little of them? Do we really think that we won't sign or trade for a TE before the trading deadline? And just for chuckles, if ASJ is healthy to start the season, my guess is that Belichick certainly had him above anyone but the top two.

But all this is speculation. I suspect that we will trade for a TE before camp, perhaps as early as next week.

reamer said:

I have a very different take on Cowart. He's got great power and is a plus run defender. If you're looking for sacks to rate his results in college, you're barking up the wrong tree. Cowart was one of my favorite picks -- I predicted we'd take him before the draft, and I'm excited to see how he develops here. Have you watched him, or are you going off reports?

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I've probably been unduly harsh on Cowart, at the end of the day he's a 5th round pick and not a "bad" athlete, he's got decent strength to play some DE. This is largely because IMO we could have gotten what I considered a top 3 TE at the bottom of the 4th and Oakland moved up to grab him.

He's got a lot to prove, but our DE depth chart is pretty sparse so he'll have every opportunity. I want him to succeed and would never actively root against a Patriot player.

Almost everyone has a 3rd TE that could have been chosen instead of one of our players, in this case Cowart and Bailey. That is what this threads about.

Belichick apparently prefers ASJ, LeCosse and Anderson to Moreau, and that he would rather add someone who had a chance to make the 53 this year, or in the future.

Personally, I find it very unlikely that Moreau would make the 53. If chosen in the 4th, Moreau would have made the 53, 4th rounders always do. IMO, we are likely to carry a free agent, ASJ and Lecosse, with Anderson on the Practice Squad.

AS AN ASIDE
It is very possible that we will carry only 2 TE's.

BOTTOM LINE
No available TE was likely to make the 53, and certainly not worth guaranteeing him a roster AND losing the player(s) that we drafted with the pick

Wozzy said:

I've probably been unduly harsh on Cowart, at the end of the day he's a 5th round pick and not a "bad" athlete, he's got decent strength to play some DE. This is largely because IMO we could have gotten what I considered a top 3 TE at the bottom of the 4th and Oakland moved up to grab him.

He's got a lot to prove, but our DE depth chart is pretty sparse so he'll have every opportunity. I want him to succeed and would never actively root against a Patriot player.

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mgteich said:

Almost everyone has a 3rd TE that could have been chosen instead of one of our players, in this case Cowart and Bailey. That is what this threads about.

Belichick apparently prefers ASJ, LeCosse and Anderson to Moreau, and that he would rather add someone who had a chance to make the 53 this year, or in the future.

Personally, I find it very unlikely that Moreau would make the 53. If chosen in the 4th, Moreau would have made the 53, 4th rounders always do. IMO, we are likely to carry a free agent, ASJ and Lecosse, with Anderson on the Practice Squad.

AS AN ASIDE
It is very possible that we will carry only 2 TE's.

BOTTOM LINE
No available TE was likely to make the 53, and certainly not worth guaranteeing him a roster AND losing the player(s) that we drafted with the pick

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The average NFL career lasts 3 years, if I suggested that all 200+ picks weren't going to move onto productive longterm careers, then I would be correct more often than not. There's no guarantee N'Keal Harry will be successful, I think he will because he's talented but that's just my opinion, like the one you offer above.

That being said I trust my process more than I trust all encompassing draft guides or the opinions of talking heads. Oakland thought enough of him to move up to take Moreau, BB maybe thought he could move up in the 5th and take him, maybe not, we'll never know.

The kid is very talented, he came from a college system that doesn't pass a lot but he caught an extremely high rate of targets. There were a bunch of other TE's who will make decent receivers in the NFL but I require that my TE's block and block well.

A lack of targets is not a lack of success as a receiver, it's merely a lack of opportunities.

I well understand that almost all posters believe that their evaluations are better than those of the scouting combines, team information, and the media that reports on both.

And yes, there are a few posters here that are quite excellent at evaluation draft choices, a very few.

Belichick has his own scouting team. His evaluation was that NO tight end was more worthy of a guaranteed spot on the roster (a pick in the first 4 rounds) than the others he chose. Belichik made 7 such guarantees and had an opportunity to make an 8th pick in the first four rounds.

It is NOT a matter of your evaluation vs draft guides. It IS a matter of your evaluation vs that of Belichick, Casserio and the patriots scouts that spend their lives evaluating college players. Belichick had a draft board. Moreau wan't high enough. It is really that simple.

Wozzy said:

The average NFL career lasts 3 years, if I suggested that all 200+ picks weren't going to move onto productive longterm careers, then I would be correct more often than not. There's no guarantee N'Keal Harry will be successful, I think he will because he's talented but that's just my opinion, like the one you offer above.

That being said I trust my process more than I trust all encompassing draft guides or the opinions of talking heads. Oakland thought enough of him to move up to take Moreau, BB maybe thought he could move up in the 5th and take him, maybe not, we'll never know.

The kid is very talented, he came from a college system that doesn't pass a lot but he caught an extremely high rate of targets. There were a bunch of other TE's who will make decent receivers in the NFL but I require that my TE's block and block well.

A lack of targets is not a lack of success as a receiver, it's merely a lack of opportunities.

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mgteich said:

I well understand that almost all posters believe that their evaluations are better than those of the scouting combines, team information, and the media that reports on both.

And yes, there are a few posters here that are quite excellent at evaluation draft choices, a very few.

Belichick has his own scouting team. His evaluation was that NO tight end was more worthy of a guaranteed spot on the roster (a pick in the first 4 rounds) than the others he chose. Belichik made 7 such guarantees and had an opportunity to make an 8th pick in the first four rounds.

It is NOT a matter of your evaluation vs draft guides. It IS a matter of your evaluation vs that of Belichick, Casserio and the patriots scouts that spend their lives evaluating college players. Belichick had a draft board. Moreau wan't high enough. It is really that simple.

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Nobody is 100% correct, including Belichick...

Foster moreau was the go. Cowart and the punter were udfa types. Makes no sense drafting a punter, it's a very low paid position. And our guy is good.

I do think asj could be great.

Wish they'd picked juan thornhill a safety withball skills. Picked one pick before their 64th, which they then traded out of. Imagine if a rookie could upgrade mccourty? That's what you want, draft picks who can replace overpriced veterans. This needs to be the last year for that overpaid, back always to the ball, no interceptions, too short mccourty.

kennyb said:

Foster moreau was the go. Cowart and the punter were udfa types. Makes no sense drafting a punter, it's a very low paid position. And our guy is good.

I do think asj could be great.

Wish they'd picked juan thornhill a safety withball skills. Picked one pick before their 64th, which they then traded out of. Imagine if a rookie could upgrade mccourty? That's what you want, draft picks who can replace overpriced veterans. This needs to be the last year for that overpaid, back always to the ball, no interceptions, too short mccourty.

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I agree, if ASJ can stay on the field all this handwringing will be for naught, but that's something he has never accomplished in his entire career.

mgteich said:

...Personally, I find it very unlikely that Moreau would make the 53...No available TE was likely to make the 53, and certainly not worth guaranteeing him a roster AND losing the player(s) that we drafted with the pick.

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Did you actually type that with a straight face?

I think Hockenson and Sample were the only tight ends we "loved" so to speak. Hock was never going to happen though and the Bengals took Sample in the second round to the surprise of many so that effectively took us out of the drafting a TE mindset.

BelichicksHoodie said:

I think Hockenson and Sample were the only tight ends we "loved" so to speak. Hock was never going to happen though and the Bengals took Sample in the second round to the surprise of many so that effectively took us out of the drafting a TE mindset.

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We might have drafted Wesco late 4th or 5th imo.

BelichicksHoodie said:

I think Hockenson and Sample were the only tight ends we "loved" so to speak. Hock was never going to happen though and the Bengals took Sample in the second round to the surprise of many so that effectively took us out of the drafting a TE mindset.

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I thought I read somewhere (here?) that supposedly Bill might've taken Kahale Warring at 87 if Houston didn't take him first at 86.

captain stone said:

I thought I read somewhere (here?) that supposedly Bill might've taken Kahale Warring at 87 if Houston didn't take him first at 86.

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You're right, my apologies. He definitely fits the mold of the physical point of attack TE and he slipped my mind for some reason. Although I can't seem to recall the article you're referring to.

BelichicksHoodie said:

You're right, my apologies. He definitely fits the mold of the physical point of attack TE and he slipped my mind for some reason. Although I can't seem to recall the article you're referring to.

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Yeah neither can I...someone posted a link - or maybe I saw it on the twitter sidebar? - to the writer's claim in one of the other threads here...I just don't understand why Bill would feel that Dawson was that much worse than Warring not to take him over yet another RB.

Yup.

I don't think that Moreau would have beaten out the TE's that we will have on the roster for Game 2. Perhaps, I should add "as judged by Bill", not by you.

captain stone said:

Did you actually type that with a straight face?

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