Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

Robert Kraft Protective Order Granted, Spa Video Can't Be Released for Now

How come the other thread got shut down? We were having a (mostly) civil discussion.

In any event, the Kraft Show is off limits for now, at least until Friday when there is a hearing on whether the video should be suppressed altogether. The ruling above (which was not surprising to me) is that the video cannot be released at least until Kraft's case is over, or until it is shown to a jury (remember trials are public except for in narrow circumstances, such as a juvenile case), as releasing it could taint the jury pool. The Judge also reserved his right to change the ruling on Friday (which to me meant he reserved his right to make it more permanent, i.e. if the video is suppressed altogether, it will never be released).

PatsDeb said:

Robert Kraft Protective Order Granted, Spa Video Can't Be Released for Now

How come the other thread got shut down? We were having a (mostly) civil discussion.

In any event, the Kraft Show is off limits for now, at least until Friday when there is a hearing on whether the video should be suppressed altogether. The ruling above (which was not surprising to me) is that the video cannot be released at least until Kraft's case is over, or until it is shown to a jury (remember trials are public except for in narrow circumstances, such as a juvenile case), as releasing it could taint the jury pool. The Judge also reserved his right to change the ruling on Friday (which to me meant he reserved his right to make it more permanent, i.e. if the video is suppressed altogether, it will never be released).

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That addresses my single biggest concern with the video being released, the tainting of the jury pool. The remaining concern will be addressed via the suppression hearing.

Judge orders eventual release of Kraft video

Unfortunately for Kraft the video will be released.

Boomer B said:

Judge orders eventual release of Kraft video

Unfortunately for Kraft the video will be released.

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LOL, here is a prime example of media spin at its finest. Both the article posted by me and the article posted here are about the same ruling by the judge. The judge has not ruled that the video will eventually be released. He has ruled that it can ONLY be released when the case is over, and he reserved his right to revise his order on Friday (when he rules on whether the video is admissible at trial - if he rules it is not admissible, then I predict he will revise his ruling to say that it can never be released.). Kraft et al. must be sweating out Friday's ruling. It's also possible (although things have gotten nasty in the case and the cops seem determined to embarrass Kraft as much as possible) that Kraft is trying to cop a plea before Friday, part of which will be that the video will not be released.

PatsDeb said:

LOL, here is a prime example of media spin at its finest. Both the article posted by me and the article posted here are about the same ruling by the judge. The judge has not ruled that the video will eventually be released. He has ruled that it can ONLY be released when the case is over, and he reserved his right to revise his order on Friday (when he rules on whether the video is admissible at trial - if he rules it is not admissible, then I predict he will revise his ruling to say that it can never be released.). Kraft et al. must be sweating out Friday's ruling. It's also possible (although things have gotten nasty in the case and the cops seem determined to embarrass Kraft as much as possible) that Kraft is trying to cop a plea before Friday, part of which will be that the video will not be released.

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I read the article yesterday and ended up smdh at the headline. Normally I'd be inclined to say the author wasn't responsible for the headline but Florio was the author

Judge rules Robert Kraft parlor video will not be released before trial | Boston.com

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — Prosecutors will not be able to release surveillance videos before the trials of the New England Patriots owner Robert K. Kraft and 24 other men charged with soliciting prostitution at a massage parlor in Jupiter, Florida, a circuit court judge ruled Monday afternoon.

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Judge Joseph Marx broadened a previous order from another judge, who last week temporarily blocked the release of videos involving Kraft. Marx’s order covers videos of all 25 men in the case, not just Kraft, and surveillance videos taken last fall outside of the Orchids of Asia Day Spa, not only those from January that include Kraft. Still photographs are not covered by the order.

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So my guess some pages ago that Kraft would be best served by his lawyers delaying the crap out of the trial may be the way to go ... because that video will be released otherwise as stated by some (most) in this thread.

IcyPatriot said:

Judge rules Robert Kraft parlor video will not be released before trial | Boston.com



So my guess some pages ago that Kraft would be best served by his lawyers delaying the crap out of the trial may be the way to go ... because that video will be released otherwise as stated by some (most) in this thread.

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Not necessarily delaying the crap out of it, but either being successful in getting the video suppressed or reaching a plea deal (seems unlikely given the vitriol in the case) where one of the conditions is the video is destroyed or not released (and I am not sure that's enforceable under FL law). The reports that say the judge ruled the video will eventually be released are not accurate. What he has said is that the videos cannot be released at least until Kraft's case is over or a jury is shown the videos (because to do otherwise could taint the jury pool), and the judge reserved the right to amend his order after making a ruling on the suppression motion (which in the opinion of this attorney means he's reserving his right to permanently block the release of the video if it is suppressed). Round 1 went to Kraft, but believe it or not, releasing controversial evidence to the public before a trial would routinely be denied for the very reason cited by the judge - you don't want the thing plastered all over the news 24-7 where it's likely to be seen by everyone who ends up on your jury.

PatsDeb said:

Round 1 went to Kraft, but believe it or not, releasing controversial evidence to the public before a trial would routinely be denied for the very reason cited by the judge - you don't want the thing plastered all over the news 24-7 where it's likely to be seen by everyone who ends up on your jury.

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This has honestly been my thinking with the videos in this case right along. How could anyone get a fair trial if the videos were released before the case was adjudicated? I understand the idea that no right thinking person would ever want to view them but this is FL we are talking about, you can pretty much guarantee the jury pool isn't going to be made up of right thinking individuals.

venecol said:

Things got personal and ugly between the attorneys. As I suspected, Kraft's attorneys are going after SA for misconduct. They also filed a motion to intervene in the two cases against the spa manager and owner since that's where the prosecutors filed motion to release videos.

This is turning into a clusterf*ck for the State and Town of Jupiter.

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Holy Sh*t

maust1013 said:

This has honestly been my thinking with the videos in this case right along. How could anyone get a fair trial if the videos were released before the case was adjudicated? I understand the idea that no right thinking person would ever want to view them but this is FL we are talking about, you can pretty much guarantee the jury pool isn't going to be made up of right thinking individuals.

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Let's face it - lots of people SAY they won't look at it, but they will, FL resident or not. If you read what one of the attorneys (for the spa worker, not Kraft) said, when the cops said they were planning to release the videos, there were something like 14 MILLION hits on the article or the youtube video, or whatever it was. The prohibition on release has been extended to all the people caught in the sting, not just Kraft.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...c798fb80536_story.html?utm_term=.17d6e8bf1e3f

5:30 p.m.


"Attorneys for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft wound down a three-day hearing by arguing surveillance video capturing Kraft inside a Florida massage spa should be suppressed in his prostitution case since a warrant allowing it should never have been granted. The judge in state court in South Florida on Wednesday didn’t immediately issue a ruling, but he did order Kraft to appear later in the month at a hearing on whether both sides are ready for trial.

Kraft’s attorneys said the warrant had no instructions on how to protect innocent people, detectives didn’t try to use less intrusive investigative methods and the lead detective was reckless in his statements in the warrant. Prosecutors said the warrant was justified. Detectives testified that they switched to a different video feed if an innocent customer was getting a legitimate massage."

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

If you’re talking about a state law in conflict with the US Constitution, it would need intervention from the US Supreme Court.

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No, it doesn't.

State courts as well as federal courts have the power to declare a state law violates the federal constitution.

QuantumMechanic said:

No, it doesn't.

State courts as well as federal courts have the power to declare a state law violates the federal constitution.

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State courts rule based on state constitutions.

Comparing Federal & State Courts

They also rule based on the federal constitution, @Ice_Ice_Brady . From the very page you gave a link to:
State courts are the final arbiters of state laws and constitutions. Their interpretation of federal law or the U.S. Constitution may be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. The Supreme Court may choose to hear or not to hear such cases.

So, for example, state courts can rule that a state law violates the First Amendment and void it.

And the first ruling is in from the Martin County case, what some of us have been saying all along. Holy ****.

County Court Judge Kathleen H. Roberts wrote in her ruling that “the blanket storing of all surveillance of all rooms at all times, regardless of the activities occurring within them falls far short of the … requirements required to protect innocent activity of innocent people who happen to come under the camera’s eye.

“The use of video surveillance and monitoring is an extraordinarily intrusive method of searching for evidence of criminal activity … Because of its highly intrusive nature, the requirements to curtail what can be captured must be scrutinized and high levels of responsibility must be met to avoid the intrusion on the activities of the innocent. These strict standards were simply not met in this case. There was no effort made to avoid capturing innocent activity behind the closed door of a massage room. There is no other remedy but to suppress the evidence gathered.”

https://nypost.com/2019/05/01/rober...-effort-to-keep-massage-parlor-video-private/

Looks like everything the cops did was illegal.

It was another stop on the same day that Kraft attorney Alex Spiro zeroed in on on Kimbark's second stint on the witness stand: whether Jupiter police sought probable cause outside what occurred in the spa to stop the men charged in the case. Kimbark testified that he looked for traffic violations and — in Kraft's case — the driver of the white Bentley allegedly swerved before the traffic stop was initiated.

"Did you say, jokingly or not, that you would, 'make some (expletive) up?'" Spiro asked Kimbark about a stop on Jan. 19.

Kimbark: "I'm sure I say a lot of things that are captured on body-worn camera, however, I do not remember specifically saying that. As it seems like it's a home run on your side, I would (not) have (brought) that profane word up."

Spiro asked whether it was "possible" he made such a statement, even in jest.

"Is it possible? Sitting inside my car, I could have said a thousand different things, and if I walk around with you all day with a recorder ..." Kimbark responded before he was interrupted by an objection by prosecutors.

Hanser overruled the objection.

"I find it relevant to an officer's intent to the determination of probable cause," Hanser said.

More from Judge Roberts:

(CNN)A Florida judge on Wednesday ruled that prosecutors can't use video surveillance in a handful of cases involving men accused of soliciting sex at a Florida day spa, a decision that could help Patriots owner Robert Kraft's efforts to suppress similar footage of him in a multicounty law enforcement operation. (...)

Judge Kathleen Roberts ruled that authorities did not follow strict legal standards required for such invasive surveillance. As part of the operation, officers installed hidden cameras in the massage rooms of unsuspecting businesses and continuously recorded customers. Some customers allegedly received paid sexual services.

Roberts said authorities failed their obligation to "avoid the intrusion on the activities of the innocent."

"The difference between surveillance and video surveillance is akin to the difference between pat down search and strip search," Roberts wrote. "There was no effort made to avoid capturing innocent activity behind the closed door of a massage room."

Thank you Judge Roberts for protecting all of our rights against this government over reach.

Robert Kraft could benefit after judge blocks use of surveillance video from Florida day spa - CNN

God bless the USA. Now take the next step and investigate the PD with mass terminations. What they did was an abomination of justice and betrays the ideals of our national values. Fck them. And apologies accepted for everyone who attacked me very early on in this thread for saying the PD’s heads would be on a platter, not Kraft’s.

The PD’s mouths started salivating when they thought they caught Kraft. They will rue the day.

LOL now news is coming out that Kraft was having the masseuse finger his ass.



No wonder he took it up the ass from Goodell. That’s where he likes it.