Belichick on Brady: ''It's a thriving relationship that never gets old.''

maust1013 said:

Which, in addition to being incorrect, has zero to do with my post. BTW that game plan was built around letting Thomas run to keep Kelly from winging it.

'Belichick said. “Thurman Thomas is a great back. We knew he was going to get some yards. But I didn't feel like we wanted to get into a game where they threw the ball 45 times. I knew if they had some success running the ball, they would stay with it. And I always felt when we needed to stop the run, we could stop it. And the more times they ran it, it was just one less time they could get it to Reed or get it to Lofton, or throw it to Thomas, who I thought was more dangerous as a receiver, because there's more space than there was when he was a runner.”'

Belichich's Gameplan

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Before the Hoodie: Bill Belichick's Origin Story

Actually it’s very appropriate to your comment.
Clearly Bill Belichick disagrees with you that Kelly was a “coach on the field”

Belichick knew that Bills offensive coordinator Ted Marchibroda, who gave him his first NFLjob, let his players call their own plays, and he thought Kelly to be poor at reading defenses.

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The Great Defender

That knowledge was all Belichick needed. Later, Belichick would tell David Halberstam he didn’t think Kelly read defenses as well as some other NFL quarterbacks did, which made Belichick confident he could stay one step ahead. While Marchibroda would be able to explain the Giants’ looks to Kelly between series, during them Kelly would have to match wits with Belichick unaided. With each drive, Belichick made sure to appear to show Kelly exactly what he’d seen the prior series, while in reality making subtle but crucial tweaks, such as replacing a defensive back with a linebacker or changing a single defender’s coverage responsibility to set a trap.

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AndyJohnson said:

Before the Hoodie: Bill Belichick's Origin Story

Actually it’s very appropriate to your comment.

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Typical andy device, lmao. Why not use the whole paragraph?

"Belichick knew that Bills offensive coordinator Ted Marchibroda, who gave him his first NFL job, let his players call their own plays, and he thought Kelly to be poor at reading defenses. Shutting down Thomas meant Kelly possibly burning them for 300 yards or more, but giving Thomas slack on the ground could keep Kelly from taking over by air."

maust1013 said:

Typical andy device, lmao. Why not use the whole paragraph?

"Belichick knew that Bills offensive coordinator Ted Marchibroda, who gave him his first NFL job, let his players call their own plays, and he thought Kelly to be poor at reading defenses. Shutting down Thomas meant Kelly possibly burning them for 300 yards or more, but giving Thomas slack on the ground could keep Kelly from taking over by air."

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No one said Kelly wasn’t a good QB. We are talking about his ability to read defenses which is what Belichick took advantage of. The grantland article spells it out.

AndyJohnson said:

No one said Kelly wasn’t a good QB. We are talking about his ability to read defenses which is what Belichick took advantage of. The grantland article spells it out.

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No, you are talking about Kelly reading defenses. What 'we' were talking about was HoF QBs that had offensive input under their HoF coaches. If it is a strawman argument you would like to engage in please have it with someone else, you will need to find your argument fix elsewhere.

maust1013 said:

No, you are talking about Kelly reading defenses. What 'we' were talking about was HoF QBs that had offensive input under their HoF coaches. If it is a strawman argument you would like to engage in please have it with someone else, you will need to find your argument fix elsewhere.

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No.

↑
Name another HOF QB that was a coach on the field like Brady... Sure, plenty of cerebral guys, but any of them smart enough to teach their HOF coach?

Truly one of a kind...

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I'm as big a TB12 fan as you'll find but off the top of my head Starr, Staubach and Jim Kelly undoubtedly fit that profile. Not that any of them are Brady but they were all definitely their own men and HoF QBs with plenty of input on their respective offenses to their HoF coaches.

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Here is the post you responded to and your comment.
The poster was talking about “smart enough to teach their HOF coach”. The excerpt I posted says Kelly isn’t in that category.

AndyJohnson said:

Here is the post you responded to and your comment.
The poster was talking about “smart enough to teach their HOF coach”. The excerpt I posted says Kelly isn’t in that category.

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Kelly is a HoF QB who called his own plays and participated in constructing game plans while playing for a HoF coach. That excerpt hardly is the definitive word against a HoF career. Goodnight andy, get your fix elsewhere.

I’m right and you are wrong!

Who’s next?

maust1013 said:

Kelly is a HoF QB who called his own plays and participated in constructing game plans while playing for a HoF coach. That excerpt hardly is the definitive word against a HoF career. Goodnight andy, get your fix elsewhere.

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No it’s not a definitive word against a hall of fame career, and I never said it was.
It’s a fact that Bill Belichick felt he wasn’t very good at reading defenses and he could trick him because he called the plays and his OC could only coach him up on what was happening out there between series.
You brought him up in the conversation of QBs “who could teach their hof coach things” in comparison to brady.
Kelly can both be a hof QB and one who isn’t a “coach on the field” who coaches can learn from, and in fact, that’s exactly who he was.
It’s not me that disagrees with you, it’s Bill Belichick. No need for an argument, you just need to accept real legitimate proof.

If you want to say he was one if the last QBs to call his own plays, that’s true, but it’s also true the Belichick took advantage of him being not so great at it.

“...never gets old.” literally

maust1013 said:

I'm as big a TB12 fan as you'll find but off the top of my head Starr, Staubach and Jim Kelly undoubtedly fit that profile. Not that any of them are Brady but they were all definitely their own men and HoF QBs with plenty of input on their respective offenses to their HoF coaches.

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AndyJohnson said:

Belichicks HOF SB gameplay revolved around Kelly getting impatient and forcing himself into the wrong play.

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AndyJohnson said:

Before the Hoodie: Bill Belichick's Origin Story

Actually it’s very appropriate to your comment.
Clearly Bill Belichick disagrees with you that Kelly was a “coach on the field”


The Great Defender

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maust1013 said:

Kelly is a HoF QB who called his own plays and participated in constructing game plans while playing for a HoF coach. That excerpt hardly is the definitive word against a HoF career. Goodnight andy, get your fix elsewhere.

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AndyJohnson said:

No it’s not a definitive word against a hall of fame career, and I never said it was.
It’s a fact that Bill Belichick felt he wasn’t very good at reading defenses and he could trick him because he called the plays and his OC could only coach him up on what was happening out there between series.
You brought him up in the conversation of QBs “who could teach their hof coach things” in comparison to brady.
Kelly can both be a hof QB and one who isn’t a “coach on the field” who coaches can learn from, and in fact, that’s exactly who he was.
It’s not me that disagrees with you, it’s Bill Belichick. No need for an argument, you just need to accept real legitimate proof.

If you want to say he was one if the last QBs to call his own plays, that’s true, but it’s also true the Belichick took advantage of him being not so great at it.

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This thread has the potential to be one of the best. But not if the rest of us have to put umbrellas over out heads to keep from getting in the middle of your pi**ing contest. IMHO both of you are incorrect. Give it a rest.

robertweathers said:

I did read it but it's been a long time .....

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I wonder what Halberstam would think now if he had lived to see the second dynastic Pats run.

Personally, I think Brady is the key. He has the personality that allows him to respect Belichick's authority. Most top QB's probably would want to do things their own way.

1960Pats said:

I wonder what Halberstam would think now if he had lived to see the second dynastic Pats run.

Personally, I think Brady is the key. He has the personality that allows him to respect Belichick's authority. Most top QB's probably would want to do things their own way.

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It was a perfect storm. A motivated player with a permanent chip on his shoulder and a coach who also had something to prove but needed a patient, supportive owner who believed in his vision and program.

1960Pats said:

This thread has the potential to be one of the best. But not if the rest of us have to put umbrellas over out heads to keep from getting in the middle of your pi**ing contest. IMHO both of you are incorrect. Give it a rest.

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Nature of the board- beast

miloofcroton said:

Name another HOF QB that was a coach on the field like Brady... Sure, plenty of cerebral guys, but any of them smart enough to teach their HOF coach?

Truly one of a kind...

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I would say Unitas in his time, he developed the 2 minute O and called his own plays.
Clearly the D's were simpler but still.

AndyJohnson said:

If you want to say he was one if the last QBs to call his own plays, that’s true, but it’s also true the Belichick took advantage of him being not so great at it.

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That's kind of what I was getting at with the condition in my statement. It's not a question of how much responsibility they have; it's a question of their actual mental capacity and accomplishments in schemes.

One guy I definitely left out of this is Peyton, so that's two guys in this generation. But even guys like Brees, Rivers, or Roethlisberger... They just went with whatever was in front of them. Same with Montana, Aikman, Marino, Elway. Some of the real throwbacks, such as Unitas or Starr may be exceptions too, as I know very little about them.

With 6 superbowl rings strong, of course it is.

Jackson 2 said:

Oh, hell. The media isn't going to like this one...

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oh boy, they all hate each other...
"there’s a division between offense, defense, special teams"

"Thriving relationship that never gets old"?? Aren't both their ages 108 when put together ... That BB I tell ya.

PatsFan2 said:

"Thriving relationship that never gets old"?? Aren't both their ages 108 when put together ... That BB I tell ya.

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maust1013 said:

If you haven't read David Halberstam's excellent 'The Education of a Coach' you really should put it on your read list. He writes quite a bit more about Bledsoe than you might expect and comes to the conclusion that as an opposing coach Belichick found Bledsoe easy to game plan against and it put the Pats at a disadvantage. It was also why he had no problem trading him in division.

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Absolutely. And at the half of this past Super Bowl I was texting friend’s telling them Belichick was treating Goff like he did Bledsoe, and they were screwed. Bledsoe could hack it, but multiple interception games when the season is on the line is the death of most Lombardi hopefuls.