Pundits' predictions for pick #32 (was "Pete Prisco")

I don't think this is the year they gamble on a recently-injured player being healed in time to contribute. Definitely don't see that happening with an early-round pick.

patchick said:

But they're really not the the exception--they're the rule. Aside from injuries, how many first-round Pats picks have not played a significant role and started multiple games as rookies? None in the last decade at least.

It's not an argument against drafting Simmons in particular, I'm just skeptical of the notion that missing a year is no big deal because Patriots rookies don't play anyway.

Click to expand...

Now I'm just quoting the "reports" here. Simmons, prior to his injury, was slated to likely be a top 8 pick. That is the kind of player that Pats NEVER get a shot at....except if there is "an issue".

IF Simmons was still there at #32, I'd JUMP at the chance to grab him with both feet. He is just what every team needs and are looking for - an explosive player in the interior of the defense. More than most the Pats are in a situation where they can be patient with their pick. And while there is a CHANCE he'd be ready for the start of the season, I'd be very comfortable with him starting on the PUP and coming back to play even as late as game 10.

Players taken in the 32 range are guys who are GOOD players. Guys who likely will be starters and "contributors" (much like Malcolm Brown was) but NOT likely to be all pro's or impact players. Of course there are exceptions that prove the rule from all over the draft, but by and large the so call "elite" players are gone each year in the top 10...if that.

So IF the Pats believe Simmons really is a top 8 player who falls to them because of an injury, it would be a risk well worth taking, especially since it seems that he wouldn't be missing the entire 2019 season

patfanken said:

Now I'm just quoting the "reports" here. Simmons, prior to his injury, was slated to likely be a top 8 pick. That is the kind of player that Pats NEVER get a shot at....except if there is "an issue".

Click to expand...

I agree in principle, but as Easley showed us, those "issues" sometimes linger. Plus this isn't exactly an ideal time for the Patriots to allot their #1 pick to a guy who beat up a woman as she lay curled up helpless on the ground. On balance, I don't see this as a "JUMP at the chance" situation, but more of a "proceed with caution."

SBLIII said:

Lance Zierlein has the Patriots selecting Defensive Tackle Jeffrey Simmons, Junior, Mississippi State

Lance Zierlein 2019 NFL mock draft 2.0: Giants reload at WR, QB

Click to expand...

It should be noted that he has him graded as the 2nd best player in the draft ahead of Nick Bosa.

manxman2601 said:

It should be noted that he has him graded as the 2nd best player in the draft ahead of Nick Bosa.

Click to expand...

A bit high for my liking but he is terrific on the field. Top 7 for me.

patchick said:

I agree in principle, but as Easley showed us, those "issues" sometimes linger. Plus this isn't exactly an ideal time for the Patriots to allot their #1 pick to a guy who beat up a woman as she lay curled up helpless on the ground. On balance, I don't see this as a "JUMP at the chance" situation, but more of a "proceed with caution."

Click to expand...

Your second point may have more validity than you first one.

I repeat the talent at #32 is generally the same as the guy who is picked at 45. The only advantage is the 5 year contract...if you want to call that an advantage. So taking Easley's injury concerns, which by the way were more problematic than Simmons', WAS a risk. But the reward, BB felt was worth it. AND for a season, Easley gave us what we were looking for when we drafted him. A guy who was sudden and explosive in the interior of the defense.

The failure with Easley was more a mistake about his MENTAL approach to the game, or lack of it. I remember watching a game where the Pats made some great play and the camera flashed on a celebrating sideline, EXCEPT for one Dominic Easley sitting by himself, looking out blankly, while the rest of his team was happy. I knew THEN that he wasn't going to last as a Patriot, despite the fact he graded out very well that season.

So if you want to bang on Bill for the Easley pick, go ahead, but he didn't fail for injury reasons, but attitude ones. That was the failure. As for Simmons, you make a good point on the off the field issue he might have. I'll be interested to find out more like when it happened, how it was adjudicated, and if he has shown he's learned from it. But if its something that's on going, then I'd pass too.

But the fact remains that the ONLY way the Pats are going to get a REAL first round talent at 32 is if there are injury or off field issues attached. IIRC in most years talent evaluators delineate how talent runs across the draft. For example, generally the first 7-10 picks are elite. Then 10-25 are you first rounders/starters. Then 26-45 are the next level of talent, and so it goes on through the draft. Someone from the draft board could probably give a more accurate breakdown of this, but I'm within reality.

The point being is that picking at 32 is more like a 2nd round pick than a first round one, and the reason why most fans don't mind if we drop 10 or so spots in a trade because we will still wind up with a player with the same talent level as one at 32.

patfanken said:

...So if you want to bang on Bill for the Easley pick, go ahead, but he didn't fail for injury reasons, but attitude ones. That was the failure...

Click to expand...

It was both, a simple truth of which Bill & his ignorant lackeys (including Easily-lover Mike Lombardi) should've been more than well aware.

Indefensibly horrible pick then as now, especially when Joel Bitonio, who should've been the successor to the soon-to-be-traded Logan Mankin$, was still available.

still no clue what BB is going to do....

patchick said:

Interesting, that's not my impression at all. Aside from injury issues, haven't most high round picks become starters as rookies? Michel, Thuney, Brown, Solder, Hightower, McCourty, etc?

Click to expand...

Perhaps, folks are looking at different time frames. You are talking about 0-1 top players in a year.

Others look at the 12 picks and see only 1-3 rookie contributors.

So, sure, last year we had Michell, bentley for a short time, and Jackson (not a draftee). Is that a year of major contributions by rookies. That depends on perspective. The draft was a fine draft so that is not the issue (we hope to have contributions from Wynn and Dawson, and also perhaps from Berrios, Crossen, Izzo, or Sam. That is in addition to more contributions from Michell, Jackson and Bentley.

I can't see Pat's passing on Lawrence and picking Simmons by Prisco. That is what my original post was about.

TN patriot fan said:

I don't think this is the year they gamble on a recently-injured player being healed in time to contribute. Definitely don't see that happening with an early-round pick.

Click to expand...

Gronkowksi? Easley?

Patriots draft Pete Prisco

mgteich said:

Perhaps, folks are looking at different time frames. You are talking about 0-1 top players in a year.

Others look at the 12 picks and see only 1-3 rookie contributors.

Click to expand...

I think this is getting a bit out of context--the conversation in which I said that was specifically about pick #32. (As, for that matter, is this entire thread.) The whole nature of the draft naturally changes in many ways as you move through the rounds.

patfanken said:

Now I'm just quoting the "reports" here. Simmons, prior to his injury, was slated to likely be a top 8 pick. That is the kind of player that Pats NEVER get a shot at....except if there is "an issue".

IF Simmons was still there at #32, I'd JUMP at the chance to grab him with both feet. He is just what every team needs and are looking for - an explosive player in the interior of the defense. More than most the Pats are in a situation where they can be patient with their pick. And while there is a CHANCE he'd be ready for the start of the season, I'd be very comfortable with him starting on the PUP and coming back to play even as late as game 10.

Players taken in the 32 range are guys who are GOOD players. Guys who likely will be starters and "contributors" (much like Malcolm Brown was) but NOT likely to be all pro's or impact players. Of course there are exceptions that prove the rule from all over the draft, but by and large the so call "elite" players are gone each year in the top 10...if that.

So IF the Pats believe Simmons really is a top 8 player who falls to them because of an injury, it would be a risk well worth taking, especially since it seems that he wouldn't be missing the entire 2019 season

Click to expand...

Take a look at the tape of Simmons repeatedly punching a woman lying on the ground and see if you still want him?

patchick said:

I think this is getting a bit out of context--the conversation in which I said that was specifically about pick #32. (As, for that matter, is this entire thread.) The whole nature of the draft naturally changes in many ways as you move through the rounds.

Click to expand...

fair enough