Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

Deus Irae · Mar 22, 2019

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
The immutable laws of the universes.

But really, can’t post much at this moment. It’s in my previous posts.

You made it up. You're talking about reason and obvious conclusions, but you're making claims without factual basis to back them up.

RobertWeathers · Mar 22, 2019

TommyBrady12 said:
Karma for not defending Brady

Florida Sheriff Expects Robert Kraft Prostitution Solicitation Video To Go Public

I understand the tactics but I think it is wrong.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Mar 22, 2019

Deus Irae said:
You made it up. You're talking about reason and obvious conclusions, but you're making claims without factual basis to back them up.

Yes, I made up statements that I asserted as opinions, theories, and superior explanations, which at that point in the discussion were already stipulated as that to anyone reading it and not jumping in to take a paragraph out of context.

Steve102 · Mar 22, 2019

robertweathers said:
I understand the tactics but I think it is wrong.

Playing hardball.

Sheriff: Oh, you won't take the plea? I think this video will definitely see the light of day. I am almost sure of it. *waits for phone to ring*

RobertWeathers · Mar 22, 2019

Steve:Section 102 said:
Playing hardball.

Sheriff: Oh, you won't take the plea? I think this video will definitely see the light of day. I am almost sure of it. *waits for phone to ring*

I know thats the tactic but a law enforcement agency releasing video evidence to TMZ without the defendant having gone thru due process just doesn't sit well with me.

I know they do it all the time but I have an issue with it. Thats all.

Ring 6 · Mar 22, 2019

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
Using reason and drawing insanely obvious conclusions like you have will not fly on here with 3-4 posters.

It is absolutely not an everyday thing for the PD to offer a deal like this - for an incredibly highly visible person - when the case should be so airtight with the evidence and screams that there's going to be problems with the prosecution because there's going to be problems with admissability of the "airtight" evidence. This same Sheriff who was on television acting like he just won the US Presidency with his ****y victory speech isn't going to take an easy conviction on the billionaire he busted, justifying his six month botched investigation? I guess they want to save their resources and not bother showing up in court to seal the conviction? Sure....there's always gullible people out there who eat this up like sugar coated manure. We have a handful of them in this thread alone. Let's just wait for the case the unravel...because unravel it will, it the most literal sense. The obvious facts of the investigation are strange and unusual. Have you ever heard of a public video being released of the actual act of prostitution? It's odd and totally bizarre because this almost never happens...especially over this excessive time period. Can't wait to hear about the chain of command of stooges watching pornographic videos of presumed innocent people all under the guise of an investigation.

Yeah, it's going to look like an awesome investigation and not a total and utter abuse of power in front of a judge who follows the laws of the actual constitution.

Law enforcement believed prostitution with use of trafficked women was occurring.
They went to a judge and got a warrant to surveil with video.
Robert kraft pays for sex.
Robert kraft is arrested fur breaking the law.

Please explain where this is an abuse of power, incompetent law enforcement or a case that will unravel.
Please try to do so without inserting your opinion of the attitude of people involved or things that you make up that you have no idea happened.
Then an honest discussion could evolve.

Ring 6 · Mar 22, 2019

robertweathers said:
I know thats the tactic but a law enforcement agency releasing video evidence to TMZ without the defendant having gone thru due process just doesn't sit well with me.

I know they do it all the time but I have an issue with it. Thats all.

It’s not a tactic or threat. It’s the sheriff explaining the law. While the case is ongoing it cannot be made public. Once it is over they cannot deny a request to obtain it.
What he is saying is that the law says if someone asks for it he is compelled to release it.

And FYI he explicitly said while the case is ongoing it cannot be released.

Deus Irae · Mar 22, 2019

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
Yes, I made up statements that I asserted as opinions, theories, and superior explanations, which at that point in the discussion were already stipulated as that to anyone reading it and not jumping in to take a paragraph out of context.

You made it up, while calling for reason and talking about insanely obvious conclusions. My pointing that out is not taking it out of context. It's noting the problem with it, specifically in context. What you did, in the context both of your specific post and of a thread which is talking about legal issues, privileges of wealth, and the like, was inappropriate.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Mar 22, 2019

AndyJohnson said:
Law enforcement believed prostitution with use of trafficked women was occurring.
They went to a judge and got a warrant to surveil with video.
Robert kraft pays for sex.
Robert kraft is arrested fur breaking the law.

Please explain where this is an abuse of power, incompetent law enforcement or a case that will unravel.
Please try to do so without inserting your opinion of the attitude of people involved or things that you make up that you have no idea happened.
Then an honest discussion could evolve.

The basic gist is this...

a judge may grant a wiretap but stipulate that the police can only listen if there’s relevant evidence within a minute of the call, otherwise they need to turn off the tapmsince they are then just eavesdropping.

There’s always a balance between personal privacy and investigations.

I’ve made no claim that I know this is he case here. I’ve claimed that I heavily speculate something is amiss. This is a five month investigation...it seems unnecessary to prove prostitution is happening 25 times when the point of the surveillance is for a different crime, human trafficking.

If you don’t think that’s what Krafts attorneys are honing in on, I’m surprised.

I don’t like Kraft or any owner. I’d just assume he gets nailed for this. I just think this investigation and surveillance seems very odd.

RobertWeathers · Mar 22, 2019

AndyJohnson said:
It’s not a tactic or threat. It’s the sheriff explaining the law. While the case is ongoing it cannot be made public. Once it is over they cannot deny a request to obtain it.
What he is saying is that the law says if someone asks for it he is compelled to release it.

And FYI he explicitly said while the case is ongoing it cannot be released.

Yes- he did say once the trial is over it can be made public but I thought the court/judge has the ability to seal any documents/evidence at their discretion? They are basically saying that will not be something considered here.

Gross.

Ring 6 · Mar 22, 2019

robertweathers said:
Yes- he did say once the trial is over it can be made public but I thought the court/judge has the ability to seal any documents/evidence at their discretion? They are basically saying that will not be something considered here.

Gross.

I think he is saying the law prevents them from sealing it without a compelling reason and having sex on it does not qualify.
I didn’t get the impression he is communicating a decision he has or will make but that he is stating his understanding of what those that make the decisions will be bound by.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Mar 22, 2019

Deus Irae said:
You made it up, while calling for reason and talking about insanely obvious conclusions. My pointing that out is not taking it out of context. It's noting the problem with it, specifically in context. What you did, in the context both of your specific post and of a thread which is talking about legal issues, privileges of wealth, and the like, was inappropriate.

Congrats, you won your 1,000,000th consecutive argument.

RobertWeathers · Mar 22, 2019

AndyJohnson said:
I think he is saying the law prevents them from sealing it without a compelling reason and having sex on it does not qualify.
I didn’t get the impression he is communicating a decision he has or will make but that he is stating his understanding of what those that make the decisions will be bound by.

Yea who knows. Sounded to me he was trying to short-circuit any considerations or motions Kraft wanted to make to suppress the evidence.

Antdawg · Mar 22, 2019

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
If you don’t think that’s what Krafts attorneys are honing in on, I’m surprised.

I don’t like Kraft or any owner. I’d just assume he gets nailed for this. I just think this investigation and surveillance seems very odd.

Not only this, but Kraft's attorneys may be able to demonstrate the warrant was obtained under false pretenses, based on what we know. That certainly seems to be the case. I'm not sure what the standard is for obtaining a warrant to surveil for human trafficking, but I'm assuming some assertions had to be made to get the warrant and if those assertions are proven to be false, then it becomes a shooting fish in a barrel scenario for Kraft's team.

Hyped · Mar 22, 2019

I no longer care about this anymore...

Like Devin said...let it play out....and no...I am not watching the video for sure.

Ring 6 · Mar 22, 2019

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
The basic gist is this...

a judge may grant a wiretap but stipulate that the police can only listen if there’s relevant evidence within a minute of the call, otherwise they need to turn off the tapmsince they are then just eavesdropping.

There’s always a balance between personal privacy and investigations.

This wasn’t a wiretap. Why would that apply?

I’ve made no claim that I know this is he case here. I’ve claimed that I heavily speculate something is amiss. This is a five month investigation...it seems unnecessary to prove prostitution is happening 25 times when the point of the surveillance is for a different crime, human trafficking.

So this attitude that your opinion is blatantly obvious to anyone that isn’t a moron, is based upon your admittedly weak understanding of the law surrounding facts you only have a scant few of?

If you don’t think that’s what Krafts attorneys are honing in on, I’m surprised.

I’m sure his attorneys are taking every piece of the case and trying to lunch whatever holes they can into it. That’s there job. The fact that they are trying to do that is certainly not proof that something was done wrong and they will prevail.

I don’t like Kraft or any owner. I’d just assume he gets nailed for this. I just think this investigation and surveillance seems very odd.

But you don’t know the facts. You are making up things to replace facts. There is no reason to believe there was any issue with the warrant. There are many potential explanations for the length of the investigation. In fact we do not even know how long the cameras were in place gathering the evidence. There is a bunch of speculation going on and people are accepting made up questions as fact and drawing conclusions from it.
As you will see most of the people who are drawing conclusions based upon filling in the gaps of fact however the want are also illustrating an anti-law enforcement attitude so finalizing their make believe with “it must be true because cops are incompetent”. You e done that yourself.

That’s my point. Strip away the things you are assuming and base things on the facts you know.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Mar 22, 2019

Robert Kraft Might Beat Criminal Charges Due to Police Overreach and Privacy Issues

Let’s see who has egg on their face when this is said and done. I’ve raised issues that are obvious.

Ring 6 · Mar 22, 2019

Antdawg said:
Not only this, but Kraft's attorneys may be able to demonstrate the warrant was obtained under false pretenses, based on what we know. That certainly seems to be the case. I'm not sure what the standard is for obtaining a warrant to surveil for human trafficking, but I'm assuming some assertions had to be made to get the warrant and if those assertions are proven to be false, then it becomes a shooting fish in a barrel scenario for Kraft's team.

You just grasped at a straw.
Surveillance was done with a warrant.
What if the people who obtained the warrant did so incompetently.

Then you leap to implying of course the warrant was based on lies so it’s going to get thrown out.

I have a better one.
What if the asteroid hits tomorrow. Kraft will never be found guilty.
The 2 are equally fact based.

Steve102 · Mar 22, 2019

robertweathers said:
I know thats the tactic but a law enforcement agency releasing video evidence to TMZ without the defendant having gone thru due process just doesn't sit well with me.

I know they do it all the time but I have an issue with it. Thats all.

I don't disagree with you.

Antdawg · Mar 22, 2019

AndyJohnson said:
You just grasped at a straw.
Surveillance was done with a warrant.
What if the people who obtained the warrant did so incompetently.

Then you leap to implying of course the warrant was based on lies so it’s going to get thrown out.

I have a better one.
What if the asteroid hits tomorrow. Kraft will never be found guilty.
The 2 are equally fact based.

I'm sorry the law causes you to become so easily unhinged in this way, but yes, police must show probable cause to a judge to obtain a warrant and if said probable cause is shown to be fabricated, that would indeed put said warrant in legal jeopardy. Sorry to break it to you.

Your friend,
America

Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

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