Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

Antdawg · Mar 20, 2019

AndyJohnson said:
His strategy is to try to luck into a technicality so he can claim he was never convicted do therefore is innocent.
His entire plan is to create plausible deniability.

Even if this is the strategy, there is nothing illegal nor nefarious about it. Furthermore, for the life of me, I cannot see why you're praying so hard for Kraft's demise? There's no good that can come to the Patriots if he's actually found guilty. It's cute that you refer to "fanboys" and the like, but I'm just trying to figure out whom you're a fan of exactly, because anybody rooting for Kraft's downfall is rooting against the Patriots. That trafficking narrative you were pushing a few weeks ago isn't available to you any longer. You'll need to come up with a better reason than that to be rooting for the Patriots owner's demise.

Antdawg · Mar 20, 2019

PatsDeb said:
I don't think there's any way this is going to trial. They will drag it out, threaten to get the video tossed (and maybe or maybe not wait to see what happens with other people challenging its admissibility, depending on how the wind is blowing), threaten to or actually take the depositions of any relevant witnesses (maybe the ladies involved won't ahem "point the finger" at Kraft), blow a lot of smoke and get the best deal they can, probably on the courthouse steps. You can pretty much substitute any courthouse drama with this timeline.

Go get 'em, Bob!

IcyPatriot · Mar 20, 2019

Triumph said:
Pee Wee Herman.

I happily shook his hand once ... loved Pee Wee

RayClay · Mar 20, 2019

PatriotsReign said:
Don’t get carried away with conspiracy theories! The FORMER owner is irrelevant to this case. And anyone that knows the former owner is also irrelevant

Doesn't seem that way. Maybe read up on the former owner?

PatsWSB47 · Mar 20, 2019

IcyPatriot said:
I happily shook his hand once ... loved Pee Wee

I hope you washed yours after

Ring 6 · Mar 20, 2019

Antdawg said:
Even if this is the strategy, there is nothing illegal nor nefarious about it.

I never suggested there was

Furthermore, for the life of me, I cannot see why you're praying so hard for Kraft's demise?

How does honestly assessing the situation mean rooting for his demise?

There's no good that can come to the Patriots if he's actually found guilty. It's cute that you refer to "fanboys" and the like, but I'm just trying to figure out whom you're a fan of exactly, because anybody rooting for Kraft's downfall is rooting against the Patriots.

It’s actuslly pretty irrelevant to the patriots. His blowjob legal outcome isn’t going to affect the team at all.

That trafficking narrative you were pushing a few weeks ago isn't available to you any longer.

This is total bull crap and an outright lie. I never, ever, ever associated kraft with trafficking and I am calling you out right now to show me where I did and when you can’t I expect you to be man enough to come back here and admit it.

You'll need to come up with a better reason than that to be rooting for the Patriots owner's demise.

Again, not rooting at all just honestly assessing the situation. Feel free to show any comments I have made that can be construed as rooting. You can’t.

Patsfanin Philly · Mar 20, 2019

IcyPatriot said:
I happily shook his hand once ... loved Pee Wee

So you indirectly...........never mind....

venecol · Mar 20, 2019

AndyJohnson said:
If it goes to trial of course he loses.
To your individual points
Yes from a pr standpoint taking the deal is as bad as losing that’s why I said he wouldn’t take it
Audio is meaningless.
The warrant was signed by a judge. There is no reason to believe it was not obtained properly.
He paid for the massage at the front desk then paid for the hooker after she was done. Why would where he paid mean anything?
There is no reasonable explanation other that he paid for sex.

Ultimately he will probably negotiate a plea that he can frame as proof of innocence but if it goes to trial he has no chance at all.

The world according to Andy:

1. If a cop says it happened then it happened because cops don't lie, ever;
2. If a judge signs an order it's because it is valid otherwise it would not be signed and of course it could never be challenged in court plus see 1 above;
3. If someone gets charged they must be guilty because see 1 and 2 above;
4. I like laws, the more the better, it doesn't matter if they make sense, interfere with our rights, or can be capriciously enforced because see 1 above, that would never happen;
5. The world is black and white, which means I'm always right because what and how I believe is the right way to be and well you're wrong.

venecol · Mar 20, 2019

AndyJohnson said:
And I agree. Hard to believe anyone wouldn’t.

Hahaha, how about 65% of the planet or about 3.5 billion people disagree with you. Lmao

USA joins Arab countries and China (and for some reason caribbean islands) in keeping it illegal. That's good company.

The Brandon Five · Mar 20, 2019

PatriotsReign said:
In your opinion...ok
I think it should be legal and I don’t see much rationale against it

What is reason you’re against it?

Read the article I posted earlier in the thread.

An excerpt.

Some argue that prostitution is just a job and that it is the stigma and criminalization that make it harmful, not the “work” itself.

Mortality rates alone dispel this myth. Research indicates that the death rate of prostituted women is 240 times higher than any other profession.[17]During their time in prostitution, violence is the norm. 82% of women report being physically assaulted (types of assault include being punched, strangled, slashed with razor blades and burned with cigarettes), while 83% have been threatened with a weapon.[18]

Women in prostitution are “the most raped class of women in the history of our planet”, with 80% having been raped at least once[19]and 73% have been raped more than five times.[20]

venecol · Mar 20, 2019

On legality, I'll post this again from a former cop who I'm sure saw effects of illegal prostitution on a weekly basis:

Marshall Frank, Retired Captain from the Metro-Dade Police Department, in an Aug. 29, 2015 article for floridatoday.com titled "Frank: Let's Legalize, Regulate Prostitution," wrote:

"It's time for legislators to wake up from slumber land by legalizing and regulating prostitution...

Some folks disapprove of the immoral nature of sex for sale and, perhaps, rightfully so. But judging morality is for churches, employers, family members and peers. It should not be a matter for law enforcement, court dockets and jail cells, costing the taxpayer dearly, every day, every month, every year...

Prostitution flourishes in the black market that would not exist if brothels and hookers were legitimized, licensed, medically inspected, zoned and taxed. Like drugs, gambling and other crimes of morality, or alcohol prohibition of years past, the black market is nourished by draconian laws that forever fail to accomplish its intended purpose...

In Germany, and other countries, prostitution is legal and taxed. They turn the 'crime' into an economic plus. In other countries like the United States, we create the 'crime,' which turns the behavior into an economic negative. And, it's still a thriving business, law or no law."

Aug. 29, 2015 - Marshall Frank

Ring 6 · Mar 20, 2019

venecol said:
The world according to Andy:

This should be rich.

1. If a cop says it happened then it happened because cops don't lie, ever;

I have never said that. Not even close.

2. If a judge signs an order it's because it is valid otherwise it would not be signed and of course it could never be challenged in court plus see 1 above;

If a judge authorized a warrant, carrying out the warrant is not illegal.

[quote\3. If someone gets charged they must be guilty because see 1 and 2 above;[/quote]
I’ve never says that. Not even close.

4. I like laws, the more the better, it doesn't matter if they make sense, interfere with our rights, or can be capriciously enforced because see 1 above, that would never happen;

I’ve never said that. Not even close.
If we pass laws, those laws should be enforced consistently, because, you knoe, they are the laws. Actually just about the opposite of what you attribute to me.

5. The world is black and white, which means I'm always right because what and how I believe is the right way to be and well you're wrong.

I’ve never said that. Not even close.

So your argument is I am wrong because you lie to make things up thatbate essentially the opposite of what I said.

Think about the exercise of misstating what I say so you can criticize me. It actually means you know I’m right and it embarrasses you.

Ring 6 · Mar 20, 2019

venecol said:
Hahaha, how about 65% of the planet or about 3.5 billion people disagree with you. Lmao

USA joins Arab countries and China (and for some reason caribbean islands) in keeping it illegal. That's good company.

View attachment 22872

you have no idea what you are talking about.

venecol · Mar 20, 2019

But of course, go for the only proof they may have:

Attorneys for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft filed a motion Wednesday to suppress evidence -- notably the video evidence -- in his solicitation of prostitution case, according to a source.

The motion is an effort to make sure that the surveillance video, described as graphic and damning, isn't released if he doesn't reach a plea deal with prosecutors. It also is a warning shot to prosecutors that Kraft's legal team will try to go after the state's case by saying there was no probable cause to collect the evidence in the first place."

These high priced attorneys should have consulted with Andy first so they wouldn't waste their time.

"When law enforcement officials first announced the arrests of spa operators last month, they described it as a sex trafficking case. But documents show that the two women Kraft is accused of receiving services from likely were not trafficked: One is 39 and was charged with operating illegal activity at the spa; the other is 58. Both have valid driver's licenses, and both are licensed as massage therapists by the state of Florida. So far, no one in the case has been charged with human trafficking.

Ring 6 · Mar 20, 2019

venecol said:
But of course, go for the only proof they may have:

Attorneys for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft filed a motion Wednesday to suppress evidence -- notably the video evidence -- in his solicitation of prostitution case, according to a source.

The motion is an effort to make sure that the surveillance video, described as graphic and damning, isn't released if he doesn't reach a plea deal with prosecutors. It also is a warning shot to prosecutors that Kraft's legal team will try to go after the state's case by saying there was no probable cause to collect the evidence in the first place."

These high priced attorneys should have consulted with Andy first so they wouldn't waste their time.

"When law enforcement officials first announced the arrests of spa operators last month, they described it as a sex trafficking case. But documents show that the two women Kraft is accused of receiving services from likely were not trafficked: One is 39 and was charged with operating illegal activity at the spa; the other is 58. Both have valid driver's licenses, and both are licensed as massage therapists by the state of Florida. So far, no one in the case has been charged with human trafficking.

I am sorry that you are so obsessed with me that I appear to be in your every thought.
I’ll just point out that a defense attorney filing a motion to exclude damning evidence is routine and about as far from certain to prevail as there is.

The Brandon Five · Mar 21, 2019

venecol said:
On legality, I'll post this again from a former cop who I'm sure saw effects of illegal prostitution on a weekly basis:

Marshall Frank, Retired Captain from the Metro-Dade Police Department, in an Aug. 29, 2015 article for floridatoday.com titled "Frank: Let's Legalize, Regulate Prostitution," wrote:

"It's time for legislators to wake up from slumber land by legalizing and regulating prostitution...

Some folks disapprove of the immoral nature of sex for sale and, perhaps, rightfully so. But judging morality is for churches, employers, family members and peers. It should not be a matter for law enforcement, court dockets and jail cells, costing the taxpayer dearly, every day, every month, every year...

Prostitution flourishes in the black market that would not exist if brothels and hookers were legitimized, licensed, medically inspected, zoned and taxed. Like drugs, gambling and other crimes of morality, or alcohol prohibition of years past, the black market is nourished by draconian laws that forever fail to accomplish its intended purpose...

In Germany, and other countries, prostitution is legal and taxed. They turn the 'crime' into an economic plus. In other countries like the United States, we create the 'crime,' which turns the behavior into an economic negative. And, it's still a thriving business, law or no law."

Aug. 29, 2015 - Marshall Frank

Frank should abstain from speaking with such authority when the words are coming out of his ass.

https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/

Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legalized prostitution report a greater incidence of human trafficking inflows.

JarOfMayo51 · Mar 21, 2019

Teej said:
If there's a way for Kraft to invest a boatload of money to some cause related to the charges, without admitting guilt, that's how it'll end.

It'll be a miscarriage of justice IMO if other perps are wearing orange jumpsuits picking up trash for the same crime while he's loving life in his rich man's world.

Not even Joe Schmoe from down the street will be wearing a jumpsuit for this misdemeanor crime.. a billionaire certainly wont

Soliel · Mar 21, 2019

Andy could get Jesus out of being crucified and got Manson acquitted. AJ, you should have been a lawyer. I’m not being sarcastic, I honestly believe this

Triumph · Mar 21, 2019

IcyPatriot said:
'manipulated his genitals' ... what they can't say stroked?

Kraft is innocent of that too.

Soliel · Mar 21, 2019

Be ready for every road game blaring like stroke me and anything by nxs

Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

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