Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

Tunescribe said:

It's amazing how dated a stadium can seem after just 18 years, but Gillette's inherent design flaws become more obvious with each passing season. Not sure, but haven't the Krafts been floating the idea of a soccer-only stadium for the Revolution somewhere? If that happens, maybe some improvements can be made to Gillette.

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I don't follow soccer; a sport that does not allow the use of one's arms is not worthy of my time. However, it would appear to me that Foxborough isn't the best place to draw it's natural audience. Perhaps a more logical location for a smaller, soccer-only stadium would be Cambridge, Brookline, or Jamaica Plain now that Pedro Martinez & David Ortiz have retired.

If that ever happens, the first thing I would do for Gillette would be to close the open end, and to separate the luxury boxes from the seats below them. It's a bad look to see them practically empty during less-than-autumnal weather.

Thelonious said:

For crying out loud. This is a matter of no football significance whatsoever. It is of very little significance in any respect. As for the human trafficking nonsense, if Kraft is guilty, so is anyone who has eaten in a family-owned Chinese restaurant. Maybe he got diddled, and maybe he didn't. Who in their right cares? Many these days will pretend to be affronted, of course, as whining about imagined moral failings is the new national passtime.

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Even those located in China? ****, I'm an even worse person that I thought.

Thelonious said:

Yes, well, there he is, in the same photo with one of the millions of people with whom he has been photographed. I am at a loss to understand your titillation over this image. Could be TDS; could be some sort of fetishism.

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I posted about a significant development regarding this mess without adding any hyperbole, answered one question, and then posted a link without comment...so yes it must be TDS.

I agree with the sentiment that this whole thing is sensationalized and overblown specifically because it's Kraft and the Patriots, but even if you think that this is trivial, it will add fuel to the fire on multiple levels.

WinstonSmith said:

I posted about a significant development regarding this mess without adding any hyperbole, answered one question, and then posted a link without comment...so yes it must be TDS.

I agree with the sentiment that this whole thing is sensationalized and overblown specifically because it's Kraft and the Patriots, but even if you think that this is trivial, it will add fuel to the fire on multiple levels.

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Fair enough, in all honesty. In such matters, I try to attend to matters of fact and to their moral implications. That some will find this photo titillating is of no interest to anybody thinking seriously about the affair. Such dangerous loons must be derided, lest we all end up in the same fix as your fictional namesake.

Patjew said:

Even those located in China? ****, I'm an even worse person that I thought.

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With it's policy of social credits, China is rendering illegal many of its own residents, so there is hope for my argument yet. Eating in a Chinese Chinese restaurant may yet constitute support for enslaved illegals.

Thelonious said:

Well, no luck, I see. Perhaps there is a forum for children at which you might thrive.

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I almost made a Michael Jackson joke in response to this but even I'm not that sick.

PatriotsReign said:

Drewski, I was referring to the chart on Betterthanthealternatives post on pg 160. Take a look at it. It showed the that the AVERAGE income for 90% of Americans is $33k. Average income takes HH income and divides be the number of HH members.

Regardless, it’s a bogus and meaningless statistic. The correct way to look at distribution of wealth is to use household income metrics.

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You can have an income of zero and more wealth than some enormous swath of the remainder of the country. If there is one metric that does not capture wealth, it is household (or any other) income.

However, the vast majority of people earn their seed money by doing work (as opposed to inheriting it). Some but not all then amass further wealth through investment (far more these days than in bygone eras, really.) We tend to regard this, too, as a form of working for wealth, especially since so many savings plans are tied to workplaces, and since so many of us "set it and forget it," and typically we realize that wealth as an income stream.

So the kind of money most of us see makes us think our wealth results from our income. The wealthier among us understand that their accumulated and/or inherited wealth is a surplus amount above and beyond the piddling amounts that we worry about in the category of income streams.

So yes, they can have zero earned income in a year, and tremendous wealth.

Your suggested metric is better for capturing wealth at the level of us working shlubs. It's bad as a measure of wealth in general. Since the wealth pyramid is downright asymptotic, measuring this way is going to capture "what people believe is wealth" but will miss a very big chunk of wealth in the hands of comparatively few people.

The only way to look at assets is to look at assets. We use income as a proxy that's inherently flawed and that is becoming progressively more flawed with the passage of time.

The end result is reverse robin hood taxation: We only take from those for whom wealth is income; we leave alone the vast wealth that is not earned. We do not tax the super-rich on the "super" part of their wealth (i.e., most of it.)

PatriotsReign said:

Ok, so if the median HH income is $60k, 90% of Americans can’t possibly make $33k

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If the median is 60k, this statement is correct. If the average (or mean) is 60K, it's incorrect. I'm not in this argument, but it looks like somebody in it introduced the oldest "whoopsie" in the actuarial book, median/mean confusion. I dunno who.

Does anyone here still want to talk about Bob Kraft?

maust1013 said:

Kiam's Patriot Missile 'joke' obviated any waiting period

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Kiam met personally with her.

He was obviously really pissed off.

I've never heard of any bad experiences for any of the many other females who have visited or conducted media work in the Patriots' locker room, before or since.

XLIX said:

Does anyone here still want to talk about Bob Kraft?

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Who?

XLIX said:

Does anyone here still want to talk about Bob Kraft?

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Hahaha, great gif and to your point, its almost certainly coming now.

We've gone from "stop having unrelated sidebar conversation" requests to two posters measuring their digital phallus' in a game of political one-upmanship.

About as much self awareness as a dog licking his ass in public.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Adam Schefter is still undefeated.

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Beat me to it

Steve:Section 102 said:

No. Lisa Olsen? If that happened now, they would get banished to the AAEFL or whatever the hell it's called. Bad drafts, bad coaching, bad stadium. Even when they were good, they were bad. All time ass-kicking in the SB vs. the Bears. Chuck Fairbanks quitting, then not. Irving fryar leaving in his car IN UNIFORM to go fight with his Gf or wife or whatever.

Now, it coulda been worse. At least some Patriot alum didn't go on the draft and yell
"Go Pats! P-A-T-A Pats Pats Pats" or some other hideous BS.

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Other teams have had their fair share of unfortunate and embarrassing episodes.

Their local media has not trumpeted them as the defining measure of their existence, not to mention piling on the worst, most negative takes and spins and always framing it all in the context of the franchise being a laughingstock throughout its entire history.

The Giants are the ultimate laughingstock. Moreso than the Jets. Yet the media always portrays them as the "model franchise".

Well that escalated slowly.

PatsWSB47 said:

not relevant, how convenient. Look it. Allowing sexual enslavement to go on for an extended period of time is wrong. The cops said this is what was going on. If it wasn't then they were lying just to get the public in an uproar. If these were concenting acts and no one was in danger then fine but it was the cops that put out the enslavement thing.

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Okay, I am not knowledgeable about the case, but...

(1) I would imagine you could do a broad vice crackdown on such places. How many are there, vs. places in strip malls that say "Massage" and have all-male clienteles? I really don't know that world; I always assumed if you see a place called "Massage" in a little strip mall, it's "that kind" of massage.

So question (1): how many "erotic massagers" are trafficked?

Are the cops talking at all about the prevalence of the practice? Here's why... it's either (a) or (b)

(a) It is very prevalent for such establishments to be staffed through sexual slavery
(b) It by far more prevalent for them to be staffed by sex workers who want to exchange said services for money.

If (a), Kraft is a monster, if he knows (a). But every other monster of this variety to date has been ignored. Eh well, then he's just funny, until you think about what his actions really support... but then... OMG we have to shut down all these joints, or do like the Dutch and stop doing this crap underground so you can tax & regulate it.

Then the bust/hoopla actually makes sense; it is denting demand through high-visibility enforcement. You have a big name that will help to raise awareness of the issue, so you use it. Right?

What annoys me is that there's no attending demand that these places be state-inspected and state-regulated, since they are apparently going to keep doing business in every state.

Either that or people should be demanding that they all be super super seriously shut down.

Putting all the responsibility on the demand side makes no sense, if you're not even trying to fix the problem. Like I said, of all my issues in life, frequenting such places is not one of them. It just seems unfair to me, whether it's kraft or some shmuck who can only afford 59 bucks, to not try like hell to close the place down (instead opting to bust a few customers at one particular place.)

Now if it's part of a statewide crackdown that they really expect to stamp out this form of prostitution, I guess that is good, assuming the trafficking thing is true. The other alternative is to make it all above board (this is the alternative, I think, that is really about solving the problem)

neuronet said:

Well that escalated slowly.

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Patjew said:

Even those located in China? ****, I'm an even worse person that I thought.

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That's an International PETA issue.

Thelonious said:

For crying out loud. This is a matter of no football significance whatsoever. It is of very little significance in any respect. As for the human trafficking nonsense, if Kraft is guilty, so is anyone who has eaten in a family-owned Chinese restaurant. Maybe he got diddled, and maybe he didn't. Who in their right cares? Many these days will pretend to be affronted, of course, as whining about imagined moral failings is the new national passtime.

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Agree mostly, but sex is different. Human trafficking to make egg rolls and human trafficking just for prostitution are 180 degrees apart.

The matter has big significance on football. The other owners can force Kraft out. He has embarrassed the franchise and the NFL with his actions. The NFL is trying to stamp out the abuse of women and here comes Kraft taking advantage of women who are less fortunate. This could be a career ender.. Mere accusations of sexual improprieties nearly took down a supreme court justice.

Its serious.

PatsFanInVa said:

Okay, I am not knowledgeable about the case, but...

(1) I would imagine you could do a broad vice crackdown on such places. How many are there, vs. places in strip malls that say "Massage" and have all-male clienteles? I really don't know that world; I always assumed if you see a place called "Massage" in a little strip mall, it's "that kind" of massage.

So question (1): how many "erotic massagers" are trafficked?

Are the cops talking at all about the prevalence of the practice? Here's why... it's either (a) or (b)

(a) It is very prevalent for such establishments to be staffed through sexual slavery
(b) It by far more prevalent for them to be staffed by sex workers who want to exchange said services for money.

If (a), Kraft is a monster, if he knows (a). But every other monster of this variety to date has been ignored. Eh well, then he's just funny, until you think about what his actions really support... but then... OMG we have to shut down all these joints, or do like the Dutch and stop doing this crap underground so you can tax & regulate it.

Then the bust/hoopla actually makes sense; it is denting demand through high-visibility enforcement. You have a big name that will help to raise awareness of the issue, so you use it. Right?

What annoys me is that there's no attending demand that these places be state-inspected and state-regulated, since they are apparently going to keep doing business in every state.

Either that or people should be demanding that they all be super super seriously shut down.

Putting all the responsibility on the demand side makes no sense, if you're not even trying to fix the problem. Like I said, of all my issues in life, frequenting such places is not one of them. It just seems unfair to me, whether it's kraft or some shmuck who can only afford 59 bucks, to not try like hell to close the place down (instead opting to bust a few customers at one particular place.)

Now if it's part of a statewide crackdown that they really expect to stamp out this form of prostitution, I guess that is good, assuming the trafficking thing is true. The other alternative is to make it all above board (this is the alternative, I think, that is really about solving the problem)

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In their press conference, the cops were talking specifically at the parlors they were investigating it seemed and the 200 or so monsters they were arresting.

Thelonious said:

It's more than serious. Such wild intemperance in judgment, in both the Kraft and the Kavanaugh cases, is downright depraved, and is a far greater moral offense than Robert Kraft's peccadillo.

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Huh??? When did this go from here to there?