Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

XLIX said:

My comment was in response to an individual who is trying to make that argument that for many, being sex trafficked is a better alternative to their home life in China.

As for Kraft, I have steadfastly maintained that what he did wasn't a big deal - but I take issue with those making the argument that he didn't do it or that the investigation has been botched in some way. Looks all pretty clean cut to me.

Click to expand...

I agree. He did it. He got caught, He should get punished. And life will go on. Some idiot fans will try to use this to bait Patriot fans into arguments, and the correct response is probably no response. In the meantime let's let the lawyers fight it out and see what happens.

The only possible consequence I can see from this is possibly Kraft might be "encouraged" to pass the franchise down to Jonathan, which I think would be a wise move to keep the team completely clear of whatever legal and other issues arise from what happened. However, this is probably ultimately a tempest in a teacup. Certainly the 31 have no place to make a fuss considering the rest of the rogue's gallery on the board.

End of the day, we're probably already over this pending how the league will react.

Teej said:

Loosening the laws on weed will result in more young kids getting involved in harder drugs, not because weed leads to it but because it's a lifestyle and harder illegal drugs are always available around it. Loosening the laws on prostitution would drive younger people into it because they could legally make more money than at entry level jobs. Both of those ill-advised moves by moron politicians will/would mean more ruined lives. IMO.

Click to expand...

There are two competing things and I don't think anyone can say with any sort of certainty which leads to a better outcome.

On the one hand, legalizing soft drugs and prostitution would deal a blow to gangs/organized crime and improve the working conditions of the sellers. Plus it'll capture some of the revenues in taxes and would mean a lot fewer people in jail and/or with career- or life-destroying criminal records for something that's even questionable to be a crime. All good.

On the other hand, legalizing will change societal norms and result in more people using drugs, being prostitutes, and using prostitutes and all that (especially more people using drugs) will have negative consequences.

Teej said:

I d0n't know if it's been said yet, but I find it ironic that Kraft wouldn't let BB draft a player this year that was arrested for what he did.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I would think Kraft gave up his moral authority to lecture and discipline players. He should step down.

Actual Pats Fan said:

The 49ers, Steelers, Packers, Bulls, and Edmonton Oilers were very popular nationally during their runs, but you're right, when it comes to the Yankees, Celtics and today's Patriots, they've been hated.

But the Celtics and Yankees were respected.

On the second point, this needs to be viewed in a long term, historical context. A lot of people in U.S. are not sports fans. Inappropriate derision of the Patriots originated in local Boston media, and spread to the National Football League when the merger took effect.

"...and you better sit on that zoo franchise of yours up in Boston. They better get a real stadium. There'll be no drunken riots in my league."

- Schramm

"Don't worry Tex, I have that Irish bug right where I want him."

-Rozelle

Most people around the country saw the Patriots as just another ordinary struggling team, with cool uniforms. It's the propaganda that got them all stirred up, especially in '81 (2-14) and '82 (snow plow).

By the time we won the AFCCG in Pittsburgh in '02, they were accusing us of cheating that very day. In Tom's second year.

Click to expand...

I have to disagree with 49ers, Steelers, Bulls et al. being nationally loved during their major runs. I hated the Bulls in the 90’s as a teenager but have great respect for their dominance as an adult because of perspective.

Those teams of the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s didn’t have to deal with the Internet, 24 hour news cycle or the cancer that is social media. Also they benefitted from having a stronger society that understood competition and not the wussy “everyone’s a winner” mentality we’re saddled with today. I also bet if you asked fans of rival teams or fans that were tired of their dynasties they’d absolutely say they hated them.

Take any of those teams, put them in the modern Information Age with our society and they would be universally hated just as much. BTW eff the Steelers and I’m 41.

Actual Pats Fan said:

By the time we won the AFCCG in Pittsburgh in '02, they were accusing us of cheating that very day. In Tom's second year.

Click to expand...

How, specifically? I thought it was legal to videotape up until the 2006 season, when they changed the rule in the offseason.

Ivan said:

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

EVERYONE HERE WHO HAS EVER BEEN TO A STRIP CLUB NEEDS TO GO TO THEIR LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMEMT AND TURN THEMSELF IN FOR SEX TRAFFICKING. PLEAS OF INNOCENCE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED OR ACCEPTED.

Click to expand...

(Sigh) Back to jail again, for me

NE_Zealot said:

I have to disagree with 49ers, Steelers, Bulls et al. being nationally loved during their major runs. I hated the Bulls in the 90’s as a teenager but have great respect for their dominance as an adult because of perspective.

Those teams of the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s didn’t have to deal with the Internet, 24 hour news cycle or the cancer that is social media. Also they benefitted from having a stronger society that understood competition and not the wussy “everyone’s a winner” mentality we’re saddled with today. I also bet if you asked fans of rival teams or fans that were tired of their dynasties they’d absolutely say they hated them.

Take any of those teams, put them in the modern Information Age with our society and they would be universally hated just as much. BTW eff the Steelers and I’m 41.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I mean the Houston Oilers fans hated the Steelers big time, and ditto the Giants and Rams vs. the Niners, and Pistons fans vs. Chicago.

But national media fawned over them.

Those old Packers deserve the adulation. They ruled.

.... doesn't mean I wouldn't have wanted us to beat them if we'd made it to SBI.

supafly said:

How, specifically? I thought it was legal to videotape up until the 2006 season, when they changed the rule in the offseason.

Click to expand...

Yes, of course, but first of all, nobody pays any attention to that and the rest of the facts.

After the game, according to the Steelers, the "best team didn't win" etc etc.

Crazy Patriot Guy said:

So you truly think there never would have been a single question of the Patriots cheating had we never changed logos? Do you really think that?

Click to expand...

The logo/uniform change is just one part of the larger conspiracy to denigrate anything and everything about the Pats, including their on field accomplishments.

Kraft never defended the team or franchise for anything prior to his ownership.

Nor the fans, except to wail about how we all suffered in misery all those years.

I am already catching flack from “Fredo” Kraft’s moronic actions from my Florida relatives.
My comeback that seems to stifle them is “Don’t be jealous that our 41 year old QB is stilling throwing darts and our 77 year old Owner is still shooting darts”. I go with whatever works

QuantumMechanic said:

There are two competing things and I don't think anyone can say with any sort of certainty which leads to a better outcome.

On the one hand, legalizing soft drugs and prostitution would deal a blow to gangs/organized crime and improve the working conditions of the sellers. Plus it'll capture some of the revenues in taxes and would mean a lot fewer people in jail and/or with career- or life-destroying criminal records for something that's even questionable to be a crime. All good.

On the other hand, legalizing will change societal norms and result in more people using drugs, being prostitutes, and using prostitutes and all that (especially more people using drugs) will have negative consequences.

Click to expand...

I agree with your 2nd paragraph 150% for the reasons stated. Problem I have with the 3rd is that everything you say is happening now anyway.

This is the old argument that if you hand out condoms in HS to the kids (to avoid STDs and pregnancies) they will have more sex earlier. I find that to be ridiculous, as if condoms would drive kids to sex instead of the real culprit, human nature.

BUSTAMOVE said:

I am already catching flack from “Fredo” Kraft’s moronic actions from my Florida relatives.
My comeback that seems to stifle them is “Don’t be jealous that our 41 year old QB is stilling throwing darts and our 77 year old Owner is still shooting darts”. I go with whatever works

Click to expand...

Yeah man, it's not been lost on me from the outset that this is all happening in Shula country.

No indication the league is involved (yet).

Reminiscent of the rentacop who saved the Galaxy, Kevin winds up suspended for Week One...and Tom suffers the only season ending injury of his career.

PatriotsReign said:

Let’s not take Kraft’s misdemeanor and turn it into an emotional topic when emotion has nothing to do with it.

Man you’re taking this to places it doesn’t belong. Sex trafficking isn’t part of Kraft’s issue. So please stop trying to link the two

You sound like you wish they could be linked. If someone buys some pot from a serial killer, it doesn’t link the buyer to his crimes

Click to expand...

The irony in all of this "slave talk" is that $100 cash tip Kraft gave the one lady was likely the biggest tip she'd ever received for a 10 minute rub and tug. What a jerk, this guy. (pun intended)

This story is rubbing me the wrong way .........

Here's a good article dealing with the possible affects of the situation and Kraft's philanthropy.

Boston’s Jewish community stunned by allegations against Robert Kraft

Ask people for reactions and the word you hear most is “saddened,” followed quickly by a reminder that individuals are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Some point to his age; to the loss in 2011 of his wife of almost 50 years, Myra; to the idea that an indiscretion at a massage parlor should be weighed against the $400 million he has given to charity over the years

Click to expand...

XLIX said:

My comment was in response to an individual who is trying to make that argument that for many, being sex trafficked is a better alternative to their home life in China.

As for Kraft, I have steadfastly maintained that what he did wasn't a big deal - but I take issue with those making the argument that he didn't do it or that the investigation has been botched in some way. Looks all pretty clean cut to me.

Click to expand...

I think his argument was some Chinese girls would choose a life of prostitution in the US over squalid poverty in China. Not saying I agree with him cause I have no idea if they would but I also believe girls are trafficked, I read a story about two girls in a European country that were lucky to get rescued.

IcyPatriot said:

This story is rubbing me the wrong way .........

Click to expand...

i hope it reached it's climax

Actual Pats Fan said:

Yes, of course, but first of all, nobody pays any attention to that and the rest of the facts.

After the game, according to the Steelers, the "best team didn't win" etc etc.

Click to expand...

Cool...the best franchise did though! Patriots have as many titles, more AFC Championships, and more playoff wins. So next time they say the best team didn’t win, just tell them they are right: the best franchise sure did!!!

IcyPatriot said:

Here's a good article dealing with the possible affects of the situation and Kraft's philanthropy.

Boston’s Jewish community stunned by allegations against Robert Kraft

Click to expand...

Meh. I've been involved with philanthropy and wealthy people for a couple of decades now. I'm not impressed by wealthy people who donate money and make sure people know about it. It has no affect on their actual lives, and if it did in any meaningful way, many of them wouldn't do it. They get a lot of praise for it, which many of them seem to crave, because being wealthy is a challenge to one's self esteem.

The ones who are 1) quiet about it, and 2) thoughtful and strategic about it, I appreciate. Some of them are even likable.

What I am impressed with, and what help keeps my faith in humanity, is the social security widow who gives $10 every month to the local animal shelter, or food kitchen, or similar. Those people actually go without something simply because they know someone else has less or needs it more, and refuse to forget about it. That's impressive.

Patjew said:

You absolutely have and so have I. And I’m not thin skinned.

Click to expand...

I’m going to quote myself here like a jerk just to say that I’ve seen @Ian deal with this issue with admirable swiftness. That is to say, it’s not a systemic issue.