Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

Deus Irae · Feb 25, 2019

Kenneth Sims said:
The hysteria about this is ridiculous. I attribute it to a bunch of ingrates who don’t appreciate what this man had done and continues to do for our favorite football team. A whole bunch of tough guys who will never forgive him for not playing a losing hand to the very end in Deflategate.

Pessimistic Pete said:
Thank you.

The people who decided to disown Kraft forever because he chose not to fight a case he had 0 chance of winning are people who also genuinely believe texts about "The Deflator" had to do with a guy losing weight.

No

Try again

Patsfanin Philly · Feb 25, 2019

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
So, assuming the video shows all that they claim it shows, Bob's only defense here would be "prove that I solicited. I'm a rich guy who came for a legit massage and they gave me something extra I didn't request." Not great but could be used to negotiate down.

Only works the first time. Considering he went back the second time, pretty hard to claim he didn't know the score.

YOUGOTMOSSED · Feb 25, 2019

Patsfanin Philly said:
Only works the first time. Considering he went back the second time, pretty hard to claim he didn't know the score.

I thought it was the 2nd visit that they videotaped the room (and no audio)? How do we know whether anything illegal happened on the first visit?

Joker · Feb 25, 2019

Kellerman says.......and so, this entire farcical dog and pony show has finally jumped the shark...

Patsfanin Philly · Feb 25, 2019

QuantumMechanic said:
Of course they could. The owners have to ratify purchases. And even if that wasn't the case the same 24 owners could make Jonathan sell, if they wanted to.

I have to believe that after 25 years of ownership and most in leadership positions, Kraft has to know where the proverbial "bodies are buried" and the dirt on other owners. All he has to do is make a few discrete phone calls (or have those close to him make the calls for plausible deniability) threatening to air all the dirty laundry, the nuclear option. Any other owner who was worried about the mob with pitchforks coming for themselves will squash any talk of forced sales.... Guys like Irsay, Wilf and Haslem have had their own legal troubles recently and that is just when we know about....

Adam Seward · Feb 25, 2019

ChrisR2223 said:
This isn't ok or forgives it but do Billionaires ever think twice about the person whos serving them?
Whether its the bell boy, the valet,the sales man, the person whos in the way of getting what they want or feel they deserve.
Is it really impossible to believe that Kraft was unaware of the person who massaged him then asked if he wanted some relief?
Now if it was more than a rub and tug and there is video of him forcing himself upon a crying broken woman then he should immediately resign and his good name and memory are done in my eyes.

I actually met Kraft through a friend of his I valeted for in Nantucket. Granted it took a summer to build that relationship, I have pictures with the rings and got an invite to the cliff side mansion for cigars. Both were pretty down to earth guys.

Kraft getting his rocks off in a place supported by traffickers is an ugly look but to conflate him to a trafficker is absurd. I would bet 5 points of my 401k match that he was oblivious to the harsh reality the girls were subjected to.

bigballas · Feb 25, 2019

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
I thought it was the 2nd visit that they videotaped the room (and no audio)? How do we know whether anything illegal happened on the first visit?

they got both

Hercules Rockefeller · Feb 25, 2019

So, I have been reading this thread for a while, I read slow and I'm confused. When I started reading this I was just trying to figure out why Malcolm Butler didn't play in the Super Bowl, and by the time I get to the end of the thread Bob Kraft has been charged with solicitation and Malcolm plays for the Titans?!? This story keeps getting crazier! So, and again I read slow and sometimes struggle to keep up, but if I'm following correctly-- the reason Butler didn't play in the Super Bowl is that Kraft and Malcolm went to the spa before the AFC Championship game and the team bus had to wait for them, or something? If that's the latest I think I'm starting to side with Bill here.

Ras-IR Dowling · Feb 25, 2019

Pessimistic Pete said:
Thank you.

The people who decided to disown Kraft forever because he chose not to fight a case he had 0 chance of winning are people who also genuinely believe texts about "The Deflator" had to do with a guy losing weight.

Chose not to fight. That’s a nice way of saying it. The man did a 180 and laid down for the 31 after a little pressure from the other owners. Who cares if we’re innocent right? Just fall in line, don’t rock the boat.

Tunescribe · Feb 25, 2019

Kenneth Sims said:
It takes 8 owners to stop something. It takes 24 to take action. Good luck with that. My guess is Bob Kraft is a downright prude in that group. The last precedent they want to set is to have to sell your team if you get caught soliciting sex. Plus, they know if they try it more information about concussion coverups will probably find its way onto the pages of The NY Times.

The hysteria about this is ridiculous. I attribute it to a bunch of ingrates who don’t appreciate what this man had done and continues to do for our favorite football team. A whole bunch of tough guys who will never forgive him for not playing a losing hand to the very end in Deflategate.

Kraft chose a different hill to fight on and ultimately won the battle. Go read the details of Goodell’s last contract extension. How his salary was reduced from $44 million a year to $2 million with a committee that Bob Kraft sits on determining what additional compensation he receives or doesn’t every year. Kraft couldn’t get 24 owners to fire Goodell. But he got 24 owners to marginalize him, make him a lame duck, and set him up to be the fall guy when the next collective bargaining battle comes around. That’s not bad work if you ask me. Kraft fights to win not to get his face bloodied fighting lost causes like the tough guys on this board.

At worse, he did something arrogantly reckless and stupid. The law will punish him accordingly as will the NFL and it all will be forgotten in 6 months by all except the most pathetic of haters.

Very good post excepting the bit on Deflategate (sometimes standing firm on principle is worth what some might consider a "losing hand") while the matter with R. Stokoe Goodell ultimately might prove too little too late. But while I agree with your observation on the hysteria, I'm concerned Bob might add fuel to the fire of being his own worst enemy by going high-profile in his choice of representation to apparently fight this thing. This might be the one time he justifiably should bend over, take his medicine and let it pass as quickly/quietly as possible.

Adam Seward · Feb 25, 2019

Simpelton said:
If you honestly think getting caught with your trousers down and embarrassing the company you work for by means of sexual misconduct hasn't gotten people fired before I honestly don't know what to tell you. Quite frankly in the majority of organizations big enough to have a code of conduct at all, what you describe so sarcastically is exactly what the standing company policy is.

In fact if I recall right it's even a requirement under Federal law to at least pay lip service to the idea of sanctioning any employee who engages in this sort of behavior. If you want to blame the woman's lib movement for making a thing that's your perogative I suppose, but that doesn't stop it from being a thing.

And it's not like there isn't a VERY recent precedent of an NFL owner being informally ****canned over some very similar conduct.

And if you think for a single second this hasn't embarrassed the Patriots, then I do know what to tell you -- that you are either not being honest or not paying attention.

(Why do I get the sense that some of the people defending Kraft are actually projecting something onto Kraft that has to do with themselves?)

Are you employed as an HR professional or do you just play one on PatsFans?

Joker · Feb 25, 2019

Adam Seward said:
Are you employed as an HR professional or do you just play one on PatsFans?

He thinks Bob is an "employee".....must be a retired company spook or something

YOUGOTMOSSED · Feb 25, 2019

bigballas said:
they got both

I could very well be wrong but I thought that the first tape just showed him going into/out of the place. The 2nd video had him in the room. Am I wrong?

IllegalContact · Feb 25, 2019

Ras-IR Dowling said:
So BKs misdemeanor arrest is the final straw when it comes to owners and if the NFL needs to kick it up a notch when it comes to punishment so be it?

I’d have a huge issue if were docked draft picks while another owner (who was arrested on 4 felony counts BTW) only gets docked 500k and sits 6 games.

You can have an issue with whatever you want but it won’t change the outcome ... he’s at the mercy of the league for an outcome

Adam Seward · Feb 25, 2019

VectorPrime said:
I swear if Kraft tries to fight this I hope it completely blows up in his face. I hope the tape gets “leaked” all over the Internet, I hope theres audio, I hope it’s as degrading and embarassing for him as humanly possible. Because **** him if he thinks fighting this and essentially throwing your entire organization under the bus is the way to go.

Jefferey Epsteins lawyer. Really? REALLY?
THATS WHO YOU CHOSE? REALLY?!

Look man, in the big game, you want a vet who is a known winner, who has played and executed, unfazed by the lights and glory.

You know what I mean?

IllegalContact · Feb 25, 2019

TommyBrady12 said:
Robert Kraft is NOT the team. This the Brady/Belichick show and Kraft was along for the ride. And Goondell can’t dock us picks as a deterrent.

Wrong.....no Kraft and we’re talking St. Louis Patriots

wheresmosi · Feb 25, 2019

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
You're right. I don't know for sure, but going on live TV drunk (if that's what it was-and it sure did look like it) sounds like a problem drinker to me.

I've always found this confusing--it would seem like a Super Bowl is normal time to have a few, and after a few one will sound a bit tipsy. If not driving, etc., I don't see it as that big of a deal.

SHOWTIME15 · Feb 25, 2019

IllegalContact said:
Wrong.....no Kraft and we’re talking St. Louis Patriots

That doesn’t make him the team. He did a great thing keeping the team in NE, but 6 super bowls in 9 appearances is way more on Bill and Tom.

Gronk · Feb 25, 2019

IllegalContact said:
You can have an issue with whatever you want but it won’t change the outcome ... he’s at the mercy of the league for an outcome

I would think that anything above personal fines or suspensions (meaning, anything extending into draft picks and such) would be an overreach by the league. Irsay got max fine and suspended a few years ago, I think if the owners went any further than that with Kraft then they’d better be sure there’s nothing similar in their backyards.

Ras-IR Dowling · Feb 25, 2019

IllegalContact said:
You can have an issue with whatever you want but it won’t change the outcome ... he’s at the mercy of the league for an outcome

If picks are taken away yeah I would have an issue. It would mark the first time this type of punishment was handed down for conduct detrimental. And like deflategate he would lay down and accept it again.

Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

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