Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

@TB_Helmet Care to elaborate on your distaste rather than hide behind a dislike click?

Patjew said:

I could not agree more.

The issue is these women were not "consenting."

Legalize and regulate it and many of these issues go away.

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Oh, I'm not condoning sex trafficking. People use all sorts of excuses as to why prostitution should be illegal... But the fact is none of them are unique to prostitution. Slave labor, child labor, exploitation, unsafe working conditions can happen in any profession in all corners of the globe. It's a lazy excuse for those who are uncomfortable about sex...

Satchboogie3 said:

What exactly is pathetic about prostitution... I dont get it. Its just sex...

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Making it illegal just puts prostitutes at greater risk and shames them so they can’t receive mainstream care and protection. The government taking down craigslist and backpage has just made the world of prostitution darker and riskier, open to predators, instead of a well regulated industry where johns and hookers had reviews and ratings. Big chest thump from DC...their interfering with human relations takes us backwards another step. The reason there are so many sex slaves and sex trafficking is because it is a dark, unregulated underworld. Way to go, big gov.

Satchboogie3 said:

What exactly is pathetic about prostitution... I dont get it. Its just sex...

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That is 100% true IF the providers are truly willing participants.

I have to say I am shocked as to how many are glossing over that this is more a human trafficking issue than it is a prostitution issue. Kraft being a well know celebrity will aid those who are trying to strengthen laws to put a dent in the issue.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Making it illegal just puts prostitutes at greater risk and shames them so they can’t receive mainstream care and protection. The government taking down craigslist and backpage has just made the world of prostitution darker and riskier, open to predators, instead of a well regulated industry where johns and hookers had reviews and ratings. Big chest thump from DC...their interfering with human relations takes us backwards another step. The reason there are so many sex slaves and sex trafficking is because it is a dark, unregulated underworld. Way to go, big gov.

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Exactly. Prostitution is very safe in Amsterdam. They have benefits, healthcare, good pay, and police presence, support, etc. Legalizing and taking the stigma away would go a long way to help fight human sex trafficking, pimping, and abuse

TB_Helmet said:

Disagree. We're absolutely a laughing stock right now. Anyone who doesn't think that is delusional, it doesn't matter how many Super Bowls we won.

This was the story of the day nationally. It's been less than 12 hours since it broke. You can't draw any conclusions about what the consensus is about how it makes us look. Most people on this thread have heard from non-Pats fan friends who had some dumb joke about it. If this had been Irsay, or Jerry Jones, this whole board would be absolutely crushing the Colts / Cowboys right now, for good reason.

This is the scene outside the massage parlor right now:



Whether you care if people are laughing at us is up to you.

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"We"? "Us"? This has nothing at all to do with "us" and arguably little if anything to do with the New England Patriots football team. It has EVERYTHING to do with a 77-year-old lonely (and possibly confused) man's poor judgment. This thing pretty much begins and ends with him as an individual.

Brick27 said:

@TB_Helmet Care to elaborate on your distaste rather than hide behind a dislike click?

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Nobody wants to hear about your opinion about on abortion, and your shoehorning it into this thread, which has nothing to do with abortion, reduces the level discourse of this topic (which I actually think we're doing pretty well with, surprisingly).

I am personally not taking this lightly. I have had season tickets for 25 years. Kraft constantly demand’s that STH act with dignity and respect or your tickets will be revoked. Personally I think that is a good thing. But I have seen people lose their tickets for pissing in a sink.
We draft all team captains because we want players with good morals and values. That is how they became team leaders. We stress that our players not become distractions by getting into legal trouble which warrants a one way ticket out of Foxboro. Christ Moss got send home for being 15 minutes late in a snow storm. I like these strict rules and penalties for it is the Patriot Way.
Unfortunately our higher than holy owner has the attitude of “Do as I say, not as I do”. This is no minor ordeal He got freakin caught in a Human Trafficing Ring Sting. Not to forget that he was totally ****faced at the trophy presentation.
Jonathon has to take FREDO out for a boat ride. Enough is enough

Satchboogie3 said:

Oh, I'm not condoning sex trafficking. People use all sorts of excuses as to why prostitution should be illegal... But the fact is none of them are unique to prostitution. Slave labor, child labor, exploitation, unsafe working conditions can happen in any profession in all corners of the globe. It's a lazy excuse for those who are uncomfortable about sex...

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If a profession is illegal it makes it much more likely for the people in the supply chain to be taken advantage of and injured.

TB_Helmet said:

Nobody wants to hear about your opinion about on abortion, and your shoehorning it into this thread, which has nothing to do with abortion, reduces the level discourse of this topic (which I actually think we're doing pretty well with, surprisingly).

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Fair enough

IcyPatriot said:

I have to say I am shocked as to how many are glossing over that this is more a human trafficking issue than it is a prostitution issue. Kraft being a well know celebrity will aid those who are trying to strengthen laws to put a dent in the issue.

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It’s a whole other question about whether or not Kraft, even if guilty, would have any indication these are sex slaves and not consenting adults. Probably not something a prostitute talks about while giving their truthful life story. That connection between Kraft and human trafficking will be constantly made, but it is based on so many assumptions at this point.

KDPPatsfan85 said:

For all the sh*t that us fans have to deal with, Kraft should give every patriots fan a free jersey!

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Be careful what you wish for, you'll probably end up with a free bildo.

Tunescribe said:

"We"? "Us"? This has nothing at all to do with "us" and arguably little if anything to do with the New England Patriots football team. It has EVERYTHING to do with a 77-year-old lonely (and possibly confused) man's poor judgment. This thing pretty much begins and ends with him as an individual.

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You don't think the owner of the Patriots making national headlines by being arrested in an illegal sex trafficking sting has anything to do with the Patriots??

Like I said, if Irsay or Jones were caught, we'd be making fun of the Colts or Cowboys.

And while I don't think we'll lose any draft picks, the fact that there's a chance that Jonathan takes over will obviously have a direct impact on our team.

Sorry Tune, can't separate Kraft from the Pats on this.

Tunescribe said:

"We"? "Us"? This has nothing at all to do with "us" and arguably little if anything to do with the New England Patriots football team. It has EVERYTHING to do with a 77-year-old lonely (and possibly confused) man's poor judgment. This thing pretty much begins and ends with him as an individual.

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Sadly I wonder if he does this 5 or 10 years ago.
He is a brilliant man who well knows his celebrity can earn millions for charities and issues.
I am inclined to believe this is an age/medication related issue of lapse of judgement.

Patjew said:

That is 100% true IF the providers are truly willing participants.

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And thats another reason why it should be legal and regulated. No one has a clue right now because it's all illegal. Kraft had No idea that the prostitutes were forced into it. Legalization eliminates sex trafficking for everyone but those that are specifically looking for it. The law doesnt target those criminals anyways. They will seek that out whether prostitution is legal or not

Satchboogie3 said:

What exactly is pathetic about prostitution... I dont get it. Its just sex...

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Regardless of the political debate he is a billionaire 77 year old man. Don't get yourself involved in something illegal, whether you agree with the law or not. He is a ****ing dunce and this little thrill seeking at an old age shamed his legacy, his family and the organization AT BEST.

It doesn't seem that he is in deep water regarding the sex slave trafficking aspect, thank God. Talk about the worst taint this organization could wear after that.

I used to wonder what Jonathan thought about his father quickly turning around to date a young gold digger after his wife's death. And now? Sweet Christ.

Of course nothing would surprise me with Jonathan either. I don't know his character just that he is another billionaire and I can't trust such a persons character.

Kdo5 said:

Regardless of the political debate he is a billionaire 77 year old man. Don't get yourself involved in something illegal, whether you agree with the law or not. He is a ****ing dunce and this little thrill seeking at an old age shamed his legacy, his family and the organization.

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I still don't see where the shame comes in... Its just sex and soliciting is just a mistameaner. If someone is offended by it they can go pound sand. People in this country are offended by everything.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

It’s a whole other question about whether or not Kraft, even if guilty, would have any indication these are sex slaves and not consenting adults. Probably not something a prostitute talks about while giving their truthful life story. That connection between Kraft and human trafficking will be constantly made, but it is based on so many assumptions at this point.

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I am inclined to think this Bob Kraft did not consider it it.
A younger Bob Kraft probably would have ... the media will be vicious.

TB_Helmet said:

You don't think the owner of the Patriots making national headlines by being arrested in an illegal sex trafficking sting has anything to do with the Patriots??

Like I said, if Irsay or Jones were caught, we'd be making fun of the Colts or Cowboys.

And while I don't think we'll lose any draft picks, the fact that there's a chance that Jonathan takes over will obviously have a direct impact on our team.

Sorry Tune, can't separate Kraft from the Pats on this.

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I can, easily. He was not there acting in an official capacity, he was acting on his own personal behalf as a flawed human being. I would say the same about Irsay and Jones -- their personal screw-ups on their own time don't logically translate to people making fun of their teams.