Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

jah · Feb 22, 2019

supafly said:
It’s a freaking Asian massage parlor, dude. They’ve been around for decades. People go in to get a massage and the opportunity for a happy ending can sometimes present itself. They’re in every town in America. Forever.

Stop with the “what are we going to tell the children” narrative.

Do you not understand the implications behind what an Asian massage parlor generally is?

Triumph · Feb 22, 2019

It does not matter if Kraft was with a minor or not.

If there are underage persons as I suspect its still part of the whole network.

primetime · Feb 22, 2019

fnordcircle said:
RE: the Sex Trafficking stuff, that upsets me.

It upsets me that sex trafficking is happening. But almost as much if the cops saw sex trafficking why does the sting continue? I don't give a **** about some old bastard paying $50 for a happy ending but if cops see sex trafficking going on why doesn't the sting stop right there and they go after the people who are running the parlor?

Either their priorities are screwed up, the timing was highly coincidental (they saw the sex trafficking evidence while videoing the last guy) or they're lying about it.

I know I know, I'm on the outside looking in and know **** all about the procedures but if there is real, actual sex trafficking they need to be storming that place in all their jerk off military gear ASAP, not trying to capture more misdemeanor crimes.

I've so far defended billionaires in this thread and now I'm going to defend cops and prosecutors, goddamn you fnord, but building a case you can bring to court isn't very easy and usually takes a great deal of time. These locations usually aren't one-offs either, the people running then usually have a network, and inevitably that involves coordination with state and federal law enforcement and customs/immigrations, or even diplomatic efforts if the ringleader is a foreign national.

I suspect you rope big name johns because there's a chance that the billionaire might have a relationship with the ringleader (not involvement in the ring, but possibly contact with them or whatever) as opposed to just the workaday sex worker.

RobertWeathers · Feb 22, 2019

ThexMojoxMan said:
So he was there visiting Bill?

God I hope not.

supafly · Feb 22, 2019

fnordcircle said:
RE: the Sex Trafficking stuff, that upsets me.

It upsets me that sex trafficking is happening. But almost as much if the cops saw sex trafficking why does the sting continue? I don't give a **** about some old bastard paying $50 for a happy ending but if cops see sex trafficking going on why doesn't the sting stop right there and they go after the people who are running the parlor?

Either their priorities are screwed up, the timing was highly coincidental (they saw the sex trafficking evidence while videoing the last guy) or they're lying about it.

I know I know, I'm on the outside looking in and know **** all about the procedures but if there is real, actual sex trafficking they need to be storming that place in all their jerk off military gear ASAP, not trying to capture more misdemeanor crimes.

Chances are they got a tip that a higher profile customer had stopped by or may be returning. That’s what they cared about, so you have a valid point. They should’ve been more interested in the bigger picture.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Feb 22, 2019

Triumph said:
Get ready for a new owner.

The NFL has been looking for a way to break up the Pats and here it is. The other owners will want the Kraft name out. Sex trafficking is as bad as it gets and dont be shocked to see minors involved.

The Krafts are through in the NFL.

How would this effect Jonathan Kraft? Most believe he has been running the team for years now anyway, while Bob is more of a relationship mender.

tom444 · Feb 22, 2019

robertweathers said:
I'm not passing judgement on his sexual needs but for Christ's Sake he couldn't have been a little more discreet? He can't pay $1000 for a escort?

Just plain dumb.

BradyFTW! · Feb 22, 2019

supafly said:
It’s a freaking Asian massage parlor, dude. They’ve been around for decades. People go in to get a massage and the opportunity for a happy ending can sometimes present itself. They’re in every town in America. Forever.

Stop with the “what are we going to tell the children” narrative.

The fact that sex trafficking has been an epidemic for decades doesn't make it any less ****ed up.

And IMO it's significantly worse for a billionaire to be involved, because he had tons of options for paying for sex, many/most of which would elicit zero judgment from me. The amount of money that would convince damn near any stripper, ****tail waitress, or woman at club to just say to hell with it and give him what he's looking for is throwaway pocket change to him. The price to ensure you're engaged in prostitution with a willing participant is basically nothing to him, but he just didn't care enough to pay it. Instead he decided to go get a $70 rub and tug at an asian massage parlor where none of the workers spoke English. That's damn near every sex trafficking red flag rolled up into one.

VectorPrime · Feb 22, 2019

Kraft won’t be forced to sell the team. It will go to Jonathan who has been basically running the team for years already.

Triumph · Feb 22, 2019

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
How would this effect Jonathan Kraft? Most believe he has been running the team for years now anyway, while Bob is more of a relationship mender.

The other owners will force the Krafts out.

Letting Johnathan take over is the same as BK staying on.

bormio · Feb 22, 2019

The crap that happens when you don’t pick up your phone for a few hours

primetime · Feb 22, 2019

BradyFTW! said:
Eh, I think it's a bit more complicated than that. The guy could have easily got himself a * in any number of ways that he could be pretty damn certain weren't tied to human trafficking, but instead he went to some place called "Orchids of Asia" spa to get serviced by women who spoke zero English. There's enough red flags that if it somehow didn't click with him that he was likely supporting human trafficking, it could only be because he basically didn't care enough to notice what was staring him right in the face.

And I do get your point here, that you could make similar arguments that people who eat meat are supporting animal cruelty, or people who bought weed prior to a couple years ago were supporting cartel violence, or people who wear Nikes are supporting sweatshop conditions, but this seems meaningfully different in ways I'm having a bit of trouble articulating. Maybe because there were a bunch of alternatives available, maybe because of direct proximity to the crime, maybe because sex trafficking is even more messed up of a crime.

No, I get it, and I feel you on it. It's an imperfect analogy for all the reasons you're describing, and it's worth noting that we probably SHOULD feel some sort of ethical complicity in sweatshops, factory farms, etc. because it serves as a call to action as opposed to simply shrugging, with the recognition that we have little power to change these things on our own and little power but to engage in them because the exploitation of capitalism is all-encompassing. But ethical complicity and criminal complicity are two different things.

Patsfanin Philly · Feb 22, 2019

Brandon_Cox said:
Who else is sweating bullets right now?

I am guessing politicians .... on a Federal level like congressmen... who else could it be that is bigger?

TennisBallHead · Feb 22, 2019

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
"Mr. Kraft was said to have patronized a spa called Orchids of Asia, in Jupiter. The police said Mr. Kraft visited a spa in Jupiter twice, dropped off by a driver."
Do they have actual proof that he did something illegal there?

Oh, I'm sure he just stopped by to use the restroom.

libra957 · Feb 22, 2019

Well, that didn't take long, can't we enjoy an offseason in peace?

RobertWeathers · Feb 22, 2019

tom444 said:
Just plain dumb.

Its beyond comprehension. Maybe whatever sex boosters hes on has messed up his judgement or self-awareness.

He has spent a lifetime of shaping his public image and at 77 years old he decides to visit a Jack-in-The-Box version of an Asian rub n tug in a strip mall???

Just reckless.

supafly · Feb 22, 2019

Elijah said:
Do you not understand the implications behind what an Asian massage parlor generally is?

I know that they’re in every town in the country and that many offer legitimate services, whereas others give you the option of paying for a little extra relaxation.

What on earth does that have to do with suggesting that a man who is almost 80 yrs old definitely “knew” that his particular massage parlor was full of girls who had been promised more massage/less tug when they came to the country?

He may have made a bad decision, but the idea that he’s somehow a bad person is ludicrous.

Triumph · Feb 22, 2019

Maybe Bob can run the team from his prison cell?

patchick · Feb 22, 2019

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:
Anyone who doesn't agree as a Pats fan that this is utterly embarrassing is kidding themselves

And what's more, IT WILL NEVER GO AWAY.

Jim Irsay was arrested five years ago, and nobody on this forum lets the Colts forget it for a minute.

YOUGOTMOSSED · Feb 22, 2019

primetime said:
That only makes him complicit in the same sense that you eating meat that you know was raised and slaughtered in inhumane, cruel ways makes you complicit in animal cruelty. I can't believe I'm defending a billionaire here, but I can say with confidence he's not a goddamn human trafficker.

The girls who work at those Asian places are typically not "trafficked." The Asian girls in the NYC rub joints paid a lot of money to get into the USA. They make about $1k a day tax free. With that kind of $$$ there's plenty of girls ready, willing, and able to work these places, there's no need to force the unwilling into it. I'm sure human trafficking happens but it's not as common as people think simply because it isn't necessary or practical.

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