The draft

patfanken · Feb 12, 2019

SBLIII said:
so in theory if the Cardinals draft Murray with Kingsbury do the Patriots make a move on Rosen and buy low on him?

I was just about to make this point. Kingsbury is already on record saying that he'd take Murray with the #1 pick when he was still a college HC. So how about this scenario.

1. I still don't think Murray is going to be looked upon as a guy who deserves to be THE #1 pick in the draft. Too much risk, not so much with his height as with his slight stature. So the Cards Trade down from the #1 pick and get some draft capital to the 6-12 level where Murray becomes a more palatable risk.

At that point they put Rosen on the market. Now I would hate to lose that #32 pick, but I think that the Cards would take a multiple pick package that would include our 2nd rounder, (64) one of the comp pick 3rd rounders, and a 5th round 2020 pick. That is 3 picks for a asset that you are looking to get rid of in the first place.

2. Now the Pats have a mid first round talent to train for 2 years to get ready for the post Brady era.

3. Plus that gives Edelman someone to go to Temple with.

mgteich · Feb 12, 2019

I think that you are complicating the deal. I presume ARIZ would want our first, which we could give. If a pick either way could be required to make the deal. The issue is the value of Rosen on Draft Day. After all, the trade wouldn't be make until they were sure that they had Murray.

With regard to the discussion of 3 picks, this is just one of the ways we can trade into the first (as is the case now).

patfanken said:
I was just about to make this point. Kingsbury is already on record saying that he'd take Murray with the #1 pick when he was still a college HC. So how about this scenario.

1. I still don't think Murray is going to be looked upon as a guy who deserves to be THE #1 pick in the draft. Too much risk, not so much with his height as with his slight stature. So the Cards Trade down from the #1 pick and get some draft capital to the 6-12 level where Murray becomes a more palatable risk.

At that point they put Rosen on the market. Now I would hate to lose that #32 pick, but I think that the Cards would take a multiple pick package that would include our 2nd rounder, (64) one of the comp pick 3rd rounders, and a 5th round 2020 pick. That is 3 picks for a asset that you are looking to get rid of in the first place.

2. Now the Pats have a mid first round talent to train for 2 years to get ready for the post Brady era.

3. Plus that gives Edelman someone to go to Temple with.

n6249c · Feb 12, 2019

n6249c said:
JAGs?

SammyBlueCat said:
You are lucky the season is over.
I would assign you some laps.
I might just blow the whistle for good measure...

Jaguars are one of my favorites. Very quick. Nice cars. And I like the cats too.

n6249c · Feb 12, 2019

carmelo15 said:
Hit women end it right there. Than to make it worse you say he hit her multiple times when she was down **** that dude

Dude it’s the 21st century. Women are not just in combat roles, they’re getting into Spec Ops units in the military, fighting MMA, asserting gender equality. Once they start fighting the rules of engagement are blind to gender.

OTOH hitting any opponent when they’re down is a bad choice. But sometimes justifiable, if they’re continuing to fight or attempting to re-engage. Basically self-defense supersedes chivalry.

patfanken · Feb 12, 2019

mgteich said:
I think that you are complicating the deal. I presume ARIZ would want our first, which we could give. If a pick either way could be required to make the deal. The issue is the value of Rosen on Draft Day. After all, the trade wouldn't be make until they were sure that they had Murray.

With regard to the discussion of 3 picks, this is just one of the ways we can trade into the first (as is the case now).

Agreed nothing could happen UNTIL Arizona had Murray in hand. However at THAT point Rosen immediately becomes less of an asset and I think 2 lesser picks in this year's draft plus a mid round 2020 pick could get the deal done WITHOUT giving up the 32nd pick.

That's the pick we will need to pick up a to TE should Gronk retire, or the best DLman available. Lots of good players between 32 and the Bear's 2nd (mid 50's?).

Of course they could trade out of the first to regain that 3rd and/or get the guy they want early in the 2nd.

Personally I think it would take 2 years to get Rosen ready to play in this system. But this would be the PERFECT landing spot for Rosen and his specific skill set. We could get our next QB plus replenish the roster with 10+ picks and the IR rookies from last season.

edkk323 · Feb 12, 2019

fnordcircle said:
I mostly agree. If we want to be fair then we should be considering weight and strength, not gender, into the equation. Case in point:

I was not talking about physical strength. A lot of women know how to stab with words and know EXACTLY where to twist. I will take a thousand punches before those psychological attacks.

So "never hit a woman" moral code is kinda flawed because they can be as malevolent as any.

Of course, I prefer peace.

fnordcircle · Feb 13, 2019

edkk323 said:
I was not talking about physical strength.

I know, I was just sort of taking part of what you said and adding in my own thing. If I was more sober I'd explain this better

edkk323 · Feb 13, 2019

fnordcircle said:
I know, I was just sort of taking part of what you said and adding in my own thing. If I was more sober I'd explain this better

I know we agree with each other. Most of the passionate "woman defenders" just try to score some points so they can get laid.

rochrist · Feb 13, 2019

patfanken said:
I was just about to make this point. Kingsbury is already on record saying that he'd take Murray with the #1 pick when he was still a college HC. So how about this scenario.

1. I still don't think Murray is going to be looked upon as a guy who deserves to be THE #1 pick in the draft. Too much risk, not so much with his height as with his slight stature. So the Cards Trade down from the #1 pick and get some draft capital to the 6-12 level where Murray becomes a more palatable risk.

At that point they put Rosen on the market. Now I would hate to lose that #32 pick, but I think that the Cards would take a multiple pick package that would include our 2nd rounder, (64) one of the comp pick 3rd rounders, and a 5th round 2020 pick. That is 3 picks for a asset that you are looking to get rid of in the first place.

2. Now the Pats have a mid first round talent to train for 2 years to get ready for the post Brady era.

3. Plus that gives Edelman someone to go to Temple with.

Don't want Rosen.

ralmat55 · Feb 13, 2019

supafly said:
Developing McCarron and/or Berrios on the practice squad is likely our best chance at eventually trying to replace Edelman in another couple of years.

Of course, there’s a chance that someone else will be added to the mix, but in the meantime they don’t have to use a roster spot on a developmental prospect.

One of the drawbacks to having the Patriots old coaching staff in Miami is you’re not going to be able to sneak a Berrios or someone like him onto the PS for further development. They’re going to have to be on the 53 or they’re off to South Beach.

ralmat55 · Feb 13, 2019

PatsFan2 said:
Wow that sucks.

Or, it makes a top ten prospect available to a team at the end of the first round. Hmmm

Deus Irae · Feb 13, 2019

supafly said:
Developing McCarron and/or Berrios on the practice squad is likely our best chance at eventually trying to replace Edelman in another couple of years.

Of course, there’s a chance that someone else will be added to the mix, but in the meantime they don’t have to use a roster spot on a developmental prospect.

Kenneth Sims said:
One of the drawbacks to having the Patriots old coaching staff in Miami is you’re not going to be able to sneak a Berrios or someone like him onto the PS for further development. They’re going to have to be on the 53 or they’re off to South Beach.

Serious question, because I may be having an Alzheimer's moment:

What wide receivers have the BB era Patriots developed from their own practice squad to a major player on the 53? I can't think of a single one.

supafly · Feb 13, 2019

Deus Irae said:
Serious question, because I may be having an Alzheimer's moment:

What wide receivers have the BB era Patriots developed from their own practice squad to a major player on the 53? I can't think of a single one.

No, you make a good point by bringing up the historical lack of development from the practice squad at the WR position, but my thinking was that having a year or two in the system could help to acclimate the player to certain aspects that would help to raise the odds of seeing success. This may prove to give them a leg up on some other candidates—barring the selection of a high round pick, which is why I included the second paragraph.

These would include playbook/general system knowledge, hundreds of hours working with Brady and McDaniels, and first hand accounts/film study from someone like Edelman, himself. I’m also a firm believer in their strength training program and its relevance to the importance of downfield blocking in this particular system.

I would prefer a certain free agent who I think would fit in perfectly, but I’m making the assumption that the team will be cap strapped and likely won’t make a high round selection in the draft. I’m also assuming that Edelman will continue playing for another couple of years. If that’s the case, some experience in the system could go a long way towards helping to develop “the next Edelman,” if you will.

supafly · Feb 13, 2019

Kenneth Sims said:
One of the drawbacks to having the Patriots old coaching staff in Miami is you’re not going to be able to sneak a Berrios or someone like him onto the PS for further development. They’re going to have to be on the 53 or they’re off to South Beach.

For me, my comment wasn’t made to suggest that the PS talent at WR is necessarily superior to most of the other NFL options, as it was to suggest that one of those players may benefit from spending time in this program—working towards success in this system.

I'm not sure that either one of Berrios/McCarron would be raising too many eyebrows, otherwise, but we’ll have to defer to Belichick and the experts who see that on the practice field every day. Point being, if they’re simply going to take a round 3-5 slot receiver in the draft, one of Berrios/McCarron may not just have a leg up on them, but could potentially draw less attention and stay on the PS.

Obviously, if they select a player in the draft in the middle rounds, there’s a higher likelihood of that player needing to take up a roster spot. Personally, I’d rather save those 4-5 spots for a “real” wide receiver who is going to contribute versus a developmental prospect. Just my take.

Deus Irae · Feb 13, 2019

supafly said:
No, you make a good point by bringing up the historical lack of development from the practice squad at the WR position, but my thinking was that having a year or two in the system could help to acclimate the player to certain aspects that would help to raise the odds of seeing success. This may prove to give them a leg up on some other candidates—barring the selection of a high round pick, which is why I included the second paragraph.

These would include playbook/general system knowledge, hundreds of hours working with Brady and McDaniels, and first hand accounts/film study from someone like Edelman, himself. I’m also a firm believer in their strength training program and its relevance to the importance of downfield blocking in this particular system.

I would prefer a certain free agent who I think would fit in perfectly, but I’m making the assumption that the team will be cap strapped and likely won’t make a high round selection in the draft. I’m also assuming that Edelman will continue playing for another couple of years. If that’s the case, some experience in the system could go a long way towards helping to develop “the next Edelman,” if you will.

Thanks. I was just doing a memory check.

supafly · Feb 13, 2019

Deus Irae said:
Thanks. I was just doing a memory check.

I probably just jinxed it and guaranteed both cuts, but I suppose the logic is sound enough to where the argument might make sense on some level, even despite the fact that it hasn’t happened yet. Maybe.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut. Every dog has its day. Even the losers get lucky sometimes. Every blind dog finds a lucky nut looking for a squirrel. Something like that.

SBLIII · Feb 13, 2019

rochrist said:
Don't want Rosen.

I think you are not alone with that. The question is who could be the QBoftF? Patriots won't be in position to draft a slamdunk successor.

Ivan · Feb 13, 2019

I wouldn’t give the Cardinals anything for Rosen.

scott99 · Feb 13, 2019

rochrist said:
Don't want Rosen.

Care to elaborate ?

supafly · Feb 13, 2019

Ivan said:
I wouldn’t give the Cardinals anything for Rosen.

You must really dislike Josh Rosen.

This is a team that gave up 3rd rounders for the likes of Shelton, Rowe, Burgess, and Duane Starks. I would hope that they’d give up as much for the shot of developing a future QB that was a top 10 selection just a year ago. Of course, there’s a very good chance that a third wouldn’t get it done.

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