There have been only 2 SB Champs that beat ONLY elite competition in the playoffs

PatsWSB47 said:

Ya know this is getting way too deep, but there is something to be said about a team that beats the top record teams throughout their playoff run. Look it, the Pats are always mocked for their tomato can wins on the playoffs. Yeah it's somewhat arbitrary but 12 win NFL teams arent common and beating 3 of them in the playoffs twice has only been done by the Pats. I think that's noteworthy.

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Look I hate them too, but we shouldn’t discredit the giants bc they had to play a fourth game.

Still that puts the pats and giants in a small group of teams to accomplish this, so your general point still stands.

I still can't believe this team won the Super Bowl! I've been buying shirts and hats like a madman.

luuked said:

He is not wrong. One tackle on that final play in Miami is the difference between calling a team elite or not ?

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For starters how many Patriot teams actually let a miracle play like that happen to them?

And as a fan of the Patriots, you should know by now that BB never just looks at one play, he's always looking at the big picture.

Losing 5 games on the road? That's not normal.

Losing back to back games twice this season? That's not normal.

Letting the terrible Jags offense put 31 and letting Blake Bottles put up 376 yards and 4 TDs against us? That's not normal for anybody.

Us losing to Mike Tomlin? That's not normal.

Getting spanked by the Marcus Mariota led Titans? That's not normal.

When you look at the big picture it's clear the Pats weren't playing elite football in the regular season like they normally do, if they were then they would've finished with at least a 12-4 record.

Frankly, their performance in the playoffs was a surprise for everybody.

If the team that beat any other playoff participant is not elite who is left ?

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Obviously the SB winner is elite, they won the SB.

Now what about teams that went 11-5 or worse and didn't win the SB (aka a large share of what this thread is about)? What argument do they have for being an elite team?

I don't think who you beat and how tough your playoff run was really matters in the end.

All that matters is winning it, when looking back at previous Superbowl teams and dynastys nobody talks about the strength of their playoff runs just the Super Bowls themselves and Super Bowl wins.

The only people who remember the full playoff run is fans of that team.

ScottishPatriots said:

I don't think who you beat and how tough your playoff run was really matters in the end.

All that matters is winning it, when looking back at previous Superbowl teams and dynastys nobody talks about the strength of their playoff runs just the Super Bowls themselves and Super Bowl wins.

The only people who remember the full playoff run is fans of that team.

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Of course all that matters is you win. As I said in the op it's just a neat little factoid.

bormio said:

I guess the Pats weren’t elite, went 11-5.

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But Joe Flacco is elite!

glm said:

Elite teams being teams that won at least 75% of their games in the regular season.

We all know the 2018 Pats are one of them beating the 12-4 Chargers, 12-4 Chiefs, and 13-3 Rams.

Now drum roll please for the other team...





...




The 2004 Pats! Beating the 12-4 Colts, 15-1 Steelers, and the 13-3 Eagles.

Just thought the PatsFans community would appreciate that little factoid.

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VERY interesting factoid. And some definite similarities between the 2018 & 2004 teams when it comes to the playoff run. The Chargers were the best defensive team the Pats played in the 2018 playoffs, the Steelers were the best defensive team the Pats played in the 2004 playoffs. The Pats beat both teams, putting up 41 points against those defenses.

Both the Colts and the Rams put up over 500 points in the regular season,in 2004 & 2018 respectively. The Pats held 2 of the 12 top offenses ever to 3 points (beat the Colts 24-3 in the 2004 divisional round, Pats beat Rams SB LIII 13-3 in 2018).

Just some interesting similarities.

Elite is a highly subjective term. 12-4 is a benchmark but does not define elite. Teams are a work in progress during the year - some teams get much better, some actually get worse. I think one of the reasons the Pats may have overachieved this year was their remarkably good health.

I don't even consider 12-4 to be a stellar regular season record.

glm said:

Using 1 season to try to prove your point? Ew.

How about we broaden our horizons.

Teams that went 12-4 and won the SB:
-79 Steelers
-83 Raiders
-93 Cowboys
-95 Cowboys
-97 Broncos
-00 Ravens
-02 Bucs
-06 Colts
-08 Steelers
-14 Patriots
-15 Broncos

Teams that went 11-5 and won the SB
-80 Raiders
-01 Patriots
-05 Steelers
-18 Patriots

Hmmm... I'd say there seems to be a reasonable cut off.

Seems like a team with a 12-4 record has a better chance of winning the SB than a team with an 11-5 record.

I'd say my cutoff is pretty justified.

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Just to finish the list:

Teams that went 10-6 and won the SB
1988 49ers
2007 Giants
2010 Packers
2012 Ravens

Teams that went 9-7 and won the SB
2011 Giants

scott99 said:

VERY interesting factoid. And some definite similarities between the 2018 & 2004 teams when it comes to the playoff run. The Chargers were the best defensive team the Pats played in the 2018 playoffs, the Steelers were the best defensive team the Pats played in the 2004 playoffs. The Pats beat both teams, putting up 41 points against those defenses.

Both the Colts and the Rams put up over 500 points in the regular season,in 2004 & 2018 respectively. The Pats held 2 of the 12 top offenses ever to 3 points (beat the Colts 24-3 in the 2004 divisional round, Pats beat Rams SB LIII 13-3 in 2018).

Just some interesting similarities.

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Don't forget both teams had a WR win SB MVP.

Also, I looked to see how well each team played smashmouth football in their respective postseasons (basically just looked at the run offense and defense stats) and this is what I found.

Edit: I fudged up the 2018 Pats Offensive Rush Yards number it's fixed now.

2004 Pats Postseason Run Offense:
-99 carries - 448 yards - 4 TDs
-Y/A = 4.53.

2004 Pats Postseason Run Defense
69 carries - 254 yards - 1 TD
-Y/A = 3.68.

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2018 Pats Postseason Run Offense
-114 carries - 485 yards - 9 TD
-Y/A = 4.25.

2018 Pats Postseason Run Defense
40 carries - 122 yards - 2 TDs
-Y/A = 3.05.

Yeah, didn't expect that tbh

TennisBallHead said:

I don't even consider 12-4 to be a stellar regular season record.

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In New England, for sure. The term “elite” is way overused.

This is ridiculous.

glm said:

2018 Pats Postseason Run Offense
-114 carries - 602 yards - 9 TD
-Y/A = 5.28.

2018 Pats Postseason Run Defense
40 carries - 122 yards - 2 TDs
-Y/A = 3.05.

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TennisBallHead said:

I don't even consider 12-4 to be a stellar regular season record.

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12-4 is like winning 100 games in the MLB, 100 points in the NHL or winning 60 games in the NBA.

Many fewer teams win 100 games in MLB, last year notwithstanding.

robertweathers said:

12-4 is like winning 100 games in the MLB, 100 points in the NHL or winning 60 games in the NBA.

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The Brandon Five said:

Just to finish the list:

Teams that went 10-6 and won the SB
1988 49ers
2007 Giants
2010 Packers
2012 Ravens

Teams that went 9-7 and won the SB
2011 Giants

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Well we might as well finish it up

15-1 SB Champs
-84 49ers
-85 Bears

14-2 SB Champs
-78 Steelers
-86 Giants
-89 49ers
-91 Redskins
-98 Broncos
-03 Patriots
-04 Patriots
-16 Patriots

13-3 SB Champs
-81 49ers
-90 Giants
-92 Cowboys
-94 49ers
-96 Packers
-99 Rams
-09 Saints
-13 Seahawks
-17 Eagles

So after breaking down all the records the 14-2, 13-3, and 12-4 teams have won by far the most SBs. Seems that 12-4 is a reasonable cut off as I've been saying.

The Brandon Five said:

This is ridiculous.

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Outrushing their opponents by 480 yards in 3 games is also ridiculous. That's outrushing their opponents by 160 yards per game.

Literally who would've guessed the Pats were gonna turn it up like that.

Edit: Yep, that number was too ridiculous. Double checked and yeah it wasn't quite that high lol.

bormio said:

Many fewer teams win 100 games in MLB, last year notwithstanding.

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Yea I agree. Maybe like 96 or something.

glm said:

Well we might as well finish it up

15-1 SB Champs
-84 49ers
-85 Bears

14-2 SB Champs
-78 Steelers
-86 Giants
-89 49ers
-91 Redskins
-98 Broncos
-03 Patriots
-04 Patriots
-16 Patriots

13-3 SB Champs
-81 49ers
-90 Giants
-92 Cowboys
-94 49ers
-96 Packers
-99 Rams
-09 Saints
-13 Seahawks
-17 Eagles

So after breaking down all the records the 14-2, 13-3, and 12-4 teams have won by far the most SBs. Seems that 12-4 is a reasonable cut off as I've been saying.

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I didn't recall that the 2016 Pats were 14-12. Wow... that team somehow flies under the radar as all-time greats.

Giants did something similar in both recent SB.