Is Belichick the Greatest Boston Sports Coach?

cmasspatsfan said:

Red did it before free agency which has to be considered in this discussion. TB and BB have done it in free agency with a different cast over the years.

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he also did it in an 8 team league

I hope Brad Stevens will surpass Belichick in the long term.

But for now, I think it has to be Belichick.

Flash said:

I hope Brad Stevens will surpass Belichick in the long term.

But for now, I think it has to be Belichick.

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Unlikely. And that's not a knock on Stevens. The Celtics would need to create a "Super" team like the Warriors. Then, they would need to keep all of the players together for many years.

Seems this board is in consensus that BB is # 1. Auerbach is # 2. Wonder who three is. I forgot to add Francona previously. He deserves consideration too (For the 3 spot that is).

Red... best Boston GM...best GM in history of sports. The man identified great players who fit his teams and was the master at acquiring these playersand keeping these players.

BB....best Boston Coach... not even close. Synchronizing the movement of 11 players for 150 unique plays after spending months of preparation refining and teaching fundamentals and technique to an ever changing roster.
Outwitting opposing coaches at an unparalleled level
Adapting to change seamlessly year in year out

Loved Red and his game plan “Russell... block the ball, get the ball, then carry the trophy to the bus while I turn off the water and pump up the heat in the visitor’s locker-closet”
“Cousy...your under hand free throws look stupid”
“Big Syracuse game and then off to Ft Wayne”
“Send 7 hookers to Wilt’s room the morning before our game.... but don’t over pay”

borg said:

Red... best Boston GM...best GM in history of sports.
...
BB....best Boston Coach... not even close.

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Sounds right to me.

I need a logo for a new project I'm working on, and yesterday I reviewed the portfolios of dozens and dozens of graphic designers. Many were super talented, each with their own styles and their own strengths. I kept looking, trying to find one whose style felt like a fit for my project. Then I hit a portfolio with no discernible style. One logo would be sleek and corporate, the next playful, the next ultra-rugged--I had to double-check that it was actually the portfolio of a single designer. The thing is, every single design was a perfect style fit for the product or company it represented. And it suddenly came to me: I'd found the Bill Belichick of graphic designers! She's "game planning" for my project as we speak.

Meanwhile, Red Auerbach would have noticed a brilliant young graphic designer working on a long-term contract elsewhere, and convinced her employer to transfer her contract in exchange for a box of cigars and a "Logo Design for Dummies" book.

IllegalContact said:

8 in a row and 9 of 10 is still the benchmark

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Is that even possible in a single game elimination playoff format, a salary cap, and 31 teams? Not downplaying the accomplishment, but the level of difficulty needs to be a big consideration here.

Bill is doing what he is doing in an era where NFL policies and rules attempt to force parity and essentially punishes success......where free agency & salary caps and huge paydays makes dynastic runs all the more improbable......the size and scope of the NFL these days doesn't compare to the NBA of the Auerbach era

Red was a pioneer of the sport, a tremendous coach, and a hell of a guy........but he did it in an era where it was in essence easier to sustain......player movement was minimal, his team was one of the haves of the league, if not THE have......he held all the control and the set up was such that continued success was, well, easier......yes he still got the job done and is one of the all time greats, but.....


Bill is, IMHO, the greatest coach of all time.....I know it is hard to compare across sports and eras, but the only two that come close for me are Wooden & Lombardi just for how they were able to get buy in and get the absolute best out of their players and at the right time........but BB does that and more, along with all the trappings of the modern sports scene......his attention to detail is amazing, and his building of a winning culture in a sport that truly demands such a culture (so many more moving parts than a 5-man team with a 15 man roster) is simply remarkable....

The parity thing can work against itself.....the same thing can prevent teams from spending what they must to get past a team that has a certain combo in place

Apples and Oranges.
Red transformed his sport in a way that no coach or GM has matched (or could, I think, because he took it from primitive to sophisticated, and that can't be done anymore). He also brought the principles of uncompromised team discipline and sustained excellence into pro sports.
Bill has taken team discipline and sustained excellence and applied them with stunning success in a more complex and difficult era to do so.
This is like comparing Galileo and Einstein.

My heart says Red but BB has done his work in a much tougher environment. The modern NFL is structured to tear down successful teams through erosion of talent. Red got to keep what he assembled year after year. Also, the shear complexity of dealing with five times as many players, balancing salarycap vs. talent distribution, etc makes what BB is doing the more impressive achievement. Red was probably the supreme sports psychologist, keeping 12 guys on task for 100 games a year; BB is the Master of Complexity.

It’s Belichick by a light year. Red is more comparable to Geno Auriemma than Belichick.

FCB02062 said:

Belichick....Auerbach won in an 8 or 9 team league

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That made it harder because the talent wasn't watered down. There are many players out there today that wouldn't have made those teams.

Auerbach over BB by a nose.

Joker said:

Francoma?...FRANCOMA??????????????????

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Bobby Valentine didn’t make the list??????

I think everyone is going to realize, if they haven't already, how great Bill is after he is gone!!

Good debate.

Red is on the list of all time greats. Yesterday, I posted that Tom was at the table of all time great athletes, with the likes of Ali, Jordan and Gretzky. Bill is at the next table with the coaches.

Bill
Red
John Wooden
Lombardi
Joe McCarthy
Casey Stengal
Bear Bryant
Pat Summit
Coach K (yeah I didn't even try to spell it)
Phil Jackson

I think I might put Red ahead of Bill, but I could be swayed the other way pretty easily. I think once you get to this group, it's pretty amazing. These folks are icons. What Bill has done is amazing, and while SB LI vs Atlanta is easily Tom's finest moment, the two SB's vs the Rams are Bill's.

Mr. Belichick, your table is ready.

Bill is the best coach in any sport in any time. I'm convinced this man could coach anyone to succeed at anything.

Free agency, multiple first round picks stolen, the development of the greatest player in sports history.
Bill. All day and every day Bill.

I can't even imagine how many championships Belichick would have run if the conferences were 12 teams big with no free agency.

I grew up during 11 of 13, including 8 in a row! Red was brilliant!

That said, for me, it's Belichick hands done! It's not because of the league size, but because coaching in the modern NFL is SO MUCH MORE difficult than the NBA. In a league that is heavily structured to pushing teams into the middle, Bill's accomplishments are truly phenomenal! Salary cap, yearly personnel turnover, scouting, team building, teaching football, staffing, game planning, innovation, constantly finding competitive advantage, game day execution and adjusting … these are complex, very difficult endeavors and Bill is the best ever!

I just wish he would mimic Red and light up a cigar on the sideline whenever the game is out of reach for our opponent! That would be the balls!

Belichick and it's not even close.

Red left then Russel was a player AND coach. That's like Tom Brady taking over for Bill next year, playing quarterback and winning the Super Bowl.

AKA there's no reality where that's even possible so you're comparing checkers (NBA coaching) to engineering (NFL coaching)

Belichick by a nose, simply because Red did not deal with

-salary caps
-free agency
-competition from a league of 30 + teams
-league rules to enforce parity. In the 60s there was for example a territorial-based draft, not based on record.

Red was brilliant as a GM and perfected fast break basketball, so this is no slight. It is just that BB has had more obstacles to overcome, even including a corrupt league office