Edelman national HOF discussion

Patriot Missile said:

Haha. Sorty Patjew, you missed his retirement speech last night

“Is” would be correct

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I was actually scared for a minute!

Unless JE11 is retiring, imo it's premature to be having this discussion.

primetime said:

Welker was a better player than Edelman.

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Absolutely not.

Disco Volante said:

Have WFAN on now and even Pats hater Mike Francesa has Edeleman as a Hall-of-Famer.

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luuked said:

A day after the SB. Lets try again in late July when all the recency bias is out of the way.

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primetime said:

Because it's ****ing stupid hot takes that will be forgotten in a month

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Yeah it's pretty nuts that the national media is now saying he should get in. I hadn't even heard this discussion until a few weeks ago, and now he adds a Super Bowl MVP to his resume. To add to it, Nate Burleson said he was a no doubt HOFer after the game last night.

But I also agree we should revisit this later. The NFL Hall of Fame seems a bit more arbitrary than MLB for example, largely due to the difficulty in the NFL in comparing different positions to each other, and also the shorter length of careers.

My go-to is always just "was he one of the top 2-3 players at his position for a non-insignificant period of time", which allows you to account for the drastic changes in the NFL decade by decade. This rules out Philip Rivers, for example. I would also say it rules out Edelman, who I don't think compares with Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, Hopkins the past few years, and guys like Calvin Johnson before that.

Edelman's case is only based on his postseason success, where he's clearly above all those guys. What's the precedent for putting guys in solely based on their postseason? Is there any? What if he has, say, two more of these runs? That's the whole debate, IMO.

Patriot Missile said:

Someone called Welker a better player than Edelman and that kind of shocked me.

I love Welker and what he did here. 100+ receptions was the norm.

However, Edelman was a much more complete receiver and its not even close.

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I don't agree. They are both great. I don't get the "more complete receiver" part. How so?

goheels22002 said:

I don't agree. They are both great. I don't get the "more complete receiver" part. How so?

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Yeah, both great. Edelman the better blocker and could line up all over the field. Welker was better after the catch, but Edelman is much more effective getting down the field to make those tough catches 10-20 yards out. Agree or disagree away. Thats just my opinion having watched both of them play over the years.

goheels22002 said:

I don't agree. They are both great. I don't get the "more complete receiver" part. How so?

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He plays inside, he plays outside, he's better after the catch, he plays defensive back, he has a 118 QB rating , he's a better punt returner.

He won't make it, but he should. Postseason matters.

rochrist said:

He plays inside, he plays outside, he's better after the catch, he plays defensive back, he has a 118 QB rating , he's a better punt returner.

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Edelman plays defensive back? I suggest you brush up on the use of the past tense.

Welker 9.2 YPR as a punt returner, Edelman 11.2 YPR.

Can't find YAC/reception career numbers for these guys.

Whatever. Both guys are my heroes and Troy Brown and Danny Amendola were every bit as valuable for their clutch play. Love 'em all. Kumbaya...

I keep hearing people talk about his regular season numbers as if they aren't good but they are. It's all about Yards per game and that would put him at 1000-1200 yds a season if he never missed games, not big td totals but 6 or 7 1100 yd seasons combined with those PO numbers might've been enough to get in.

I believe the only thing that hurt his case is missing to much playing time. Maybe if he puts together a nice stretch over the next few years we'll see.

Welker and Edelman were/are both great WRs.

If I’m forced to choose, I’m taking Jules Every Single Time.

The last 3 seasons we had a healthy Julián Edelman we won the Super Bowl. Outside of Tom Brady, Edelman is the difference maker for the greatest NFL dynasty ever. He has been one of the most impactful players in the league since 2013. Would have he been different without Brady? Doesn’t matter - he wasn’t. In an era where lots of players pile up stats at WR, Edelman makes the big plays - 3rd and 7 - over and over again. Sexy plays - no. But ones that bring rings.

You could make a case that welker is the greatest slot wr of all time. His numbers were that good.

Now of our 4 main slot guys in Brady’s career (brown welker Jules and Danny) if you have to win a game, be honest welker would be last on your lists. How sick is that?

TB_Helmet said:

Edelman's case is only based on his postseason success, where he's clearly above all those guys. What's the precedent for putting guys in solely based on their postseason? Is there any.

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Kurt Warner is in the HoF mostly because if his post-season stats.

It’s one game. Championship. Welker or Edelman. You’re a damn fool not to pick Edelman every time.

That’s all I need to know.

Bella*chick said:

It’s one game. Championship. Welker or Edelman. You’re a damn fool not to pick Edelman every time.

That’s all I need to know.

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pretty much this. Welker has the regular season stats. but the one lasting image in everyones mind is going to be the dropped pass in the giants superbowl.

on the other hand you have Edelmans 3rd and 16 catch against the seahawks taking the big hit, the TD, the Miracle catch against Atlanta, and now this 10catch 141 yard masterpiece.

If Edelman has one more postseason like this past one, he will be within 10 receptions of what was thought to be one of the most unassailable of NFL records - Rice’s playoff reception mark - in what would be basically 6 years. That is mind-blowing.

I think he’s in. Or, I should say, he’s got a shot depending somewhat on what happens from here. If he retired today would be be 1st ballot? No. It’s true there’s a logjam of talented WRs and other players ahead of him (WRs have struggled to get in anyway) which it makes it really hard to read or handicap if you’re just trying to objectively assess his odds. A couple more years of peak Edelman - and goddamn if he wasn’t a monster the back half of this season - and another title and he could render some of this discussion moot. I think the narrative matters too - this is a guy who didn’t even play WR until he got to the NFL, turned himself into one of the greatest punt returners of all-time, the go-to guy for the GOAT, won (at least) 3 SBs, he has a SB MVP, and he got there solely through hard work. He was absolutely unguardable yesterday...yeah he’s doesn’t have prototype size or a Moss ‘07 like regular season, but he nonetheless will someday retire as at WORST the 2nd most accomplished postseason WR of ALL TIME. If that’s not a HOFer, then I don’t know what is.

If you don’t believe his accomplishments merit the HOF then of course nothing I or any fan or talking head will say will impact your thinking. But he will be coming from the greatest dynasty in league history, and it’s a team that doesn’t otherwise have a ton of HOF level producers on it because of the interchangeable parts BB has won with. Gronk and JE11 are the offensive stalwarts of the 2.0 era of TB/BB. 10 years down the road what he has done so far (and there may be more to come), after a bunch of dogshit fancy offensive teams have won SBs with more traditional WR talent, I believe what he’s put out there will only look more incredible.

Edelman has been in 18 playoff games in his career. If you throw out the first two and only consider the last 16, the equivalent of a complete regular season, in 16 games he's caught 108 passes in 166 targets for 1356 yards.

He is automatic, gets open quicker than anyone can react and splits the defense for whatever is needed to keep the drive going. Even with lots of Pats hate, it’s clear to a lot of people he is a certain kind of great even if the numbers aren’t padded for a decade as a 15+ ypc/10td guy.