Edelman national HOF discussion

Jackson 2 said:

Why in God's name anyone, particularly any real Pats fan, would continue to bang this drum is beyond me. But, clearly there's an over- riding motive here. You can take the memory of Wes Welker over the performance of Julian Edelman all day and all night. Once the history has been written of the two, the Welker performance will pale by comparison. Not necessarily numbers-wise, but clear!y clutch -wise. And it won't be close.

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I would not take Welker over Edelman on most teams we have fielded since 2013.

But at the same time I am sick of people downplaying how ****ing good Welker was just because he didn't have as much random luck as Edelman had and even more tired of the bozos who can't think beyond the very surface of things declare that one is clutch and the other is not.

lurker1965 said:

I'd say no, right now, but there is precedent.
Lynn Swann is in because of his post season stuff. Regular season he is similar.

Lynn Swann stats

Edelman stats

Swann lead the league once in TDs and once in punt return TDs. If Edelman ever leads the league in anything (except fumbles recovered )...

Ian please merge if I missed another thread.

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I would rather see Stanley Morgan in first ... 19.4 YPC average for a career is amazing.

primetime said:

Seymour was the best player on a top-flight defense, you're way underselling how good and important he was. Edelman has spent most of his career as the second or third best pass catcher on his own team. This whole thread is basically just a case study in recency bias.

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Seymour sucked is my whole point.

fnordcircle said:

Seymour sucked is my whole point.

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Not as much as you suck!!!!1

Sorry fnord you don't suck

Only if he kills a guy. That's how Ray Lewis got in

primetime said:

Sorry fnord you don't suck

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Sorry man, I'm just stressing some medical **** tomorrow and I don't wanna argue. I actually really try to not fall prey to recency bias like people do with Curtis Martin, for example.

I might be putting too much stress on Julian's 2 clutch catches in the SBs. His catch against the Seahawks where I think he was running while basically knocked out and the obvious one against Atlanta. All-time great plays in the biggest stage carry a lot of weight with me. I also think he was more of a leader than Seymour but it's impossible to know unless you're in the locker room.

LOVE JE But JE is prob not NFL HOF material but certainly NEP HOF material . He is essentially Troy Brown and that is about as big a compliment as I can give him

Let’s see what the next few years bring with JE. A few more deep playoff runs and this discussion could change

Also if you have to **** on Wes Welker to make a case for JE it doesn’t look good for Edelman. JE is doing fine on his own. WW has a potential HOF career. Their trajectories are just a bit different and each benefited from different things .

And if you want to talk about Hall of Fame then Gost should be in the discussion. He’s the second or third most accurate kicker of all time and has been doing it for years longer than the guy ahead of him . He has many years left also. When all said and done when Gost is done with his career he’ll be the Tom Brady of kickers.

fnordcircle said:

Sorry man, I'm just stressing some medical **** tomorrow and I don't wanna argue. I actually really try to not fall prey to recency bias like people do with Curtis Martin, for example.

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I was just playing. Hope all the medical **** works out man. Best thoughts your way.

1. @fnordcircle good luck tomorrow.
2. If they had a Hall of Clutch, Jules' bust would be right next to David Ortiz' when you walk in the place. He's the mayor of Clutchville. (just made that up)
3. I think his lack of Pro Bowl selection and killer stats will keep him out. but the talking heads keep talking about, then he might surprise a lot of people.

primetime said:

I was just playing. Hope all the medical **** works out man. Best thoughts your way.

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Thanks, I'm just being a big man baby. It's not the procedures that are the problem, they're routine, it's that I've never been put under and I have an irrational fear around that. I'll be fine. But until then I'm just gonna use it as leverage to try to get away with a lot of terrible takes on here.

luuked said:

I would not take Welker over Edelman on most teams we have fielded since 2013.

But at the same time I am sick of people downplaying how ****ing good Welker was just because he didn't have as much random luck as Edelman had and even more tired of the bozos who can't think beyond the very surface of things declare that one is clutch and the other is not.

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People give Welker a bad rap because of that one Super Bowl drop. It's really all there is too it. But Welker was ****ing insane in our offense. Outstanding. Loved him here

fnordcircle said:

Thanks, I'm just being a big man baby. It's not the procedures that are the problem, they're routine, it's that I've never been put under and I have an irrational fear around that. I'll be fine. But until then I'm just gonna use it as leverage to try to get away with a lot of terrible takes on here.

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You’re going to wake up and be as annoyingly brilliant as ever. No doubt.

Good luck bud!

I should note that I don’t really care about any Hall of Fame. One of the things I love about sports is that it’s about results, not people voting for you.

luuked said:

Look I love Edelman but a lot of this is just the randomness of the game. When you say clutch I have to remind you that Edelman Harper'd a punt about halfway into the fourth quarter, got bailed out and then a play later tipped a pass for an INT. But because Ford lines up offside all of this is pushed to the side.

Welker's reputation for not being clutch is mostly centered around that infamous SB play. Will we keep talking about that one as much if Manningham doesn't catch the ball and our defense gets the ball back instead of giving up the lead ? Or if Brady doesn't turn the ball over the Giants on another deep pass ? Safety ? Saying Welker is not clutch is the same narrative ******** as saying Ghost is not clutch because of the XP he missed in Denver. There are dozens other reasons why we lost both games but people hang with those for whatever narrative reason.

I think you can make an argument for either of the two player if you had to select one. Recency bias aside people should really check out some of the games Welker played from 2010-2012.

Anyway my point was that someone saying they'd take Edelman 100 out of 100 times over Welker is just silly. Welker was way too good to be thrown to the side like that.

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Luuked I get what you’re saying but it wasn’t just the KC game. Look back at Edelman’s career. He’s been money in the playoffs.

Not to mention 2 unforgettable catches in 2 different Super Bowls

AzorianPats said:

Luuked I get what you’re saying but it wasn’t just the KC game. Look back at Edelman’s career. He’s been money in the playoffs.

Not to mention 2 unforgettable catches in 2 different Super Bowls

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I remember all of them. I am just saying that as much as that catch against the Falcons was incredible it was also the epitome of absolute random luck. The same way that sometimes a ball just bounces to the right person after a strip sack. Yes it took him to be in position and focused to take advantage of the ball just falling his way so kudos for taking advantage of it but there were at least 3-4 differently blown things by Falcons players. If the ball falls incomplete it will be forgotten as fast as KVNs strip sack on Mahomes to end the first half where the ball just bounced back into the QBs hands.

On the other hand, the catch against the Seahawks while staying up was huge and all on him and I give him all the credit in the world for that. I don't think Welker would be able to do that. And I said before that for most of the teams we had in the post Welker era I would take Edelman over him just because he gives more diversity.

I am not trying to minimize Edelman but just trying to be rational here and honestly think people undervalue the player Welker was due to recency bias and because of how 4-5 plays over 6 years of his career turned out. When I read "I would take Edelman over Welker 100 over 100 times" I feel like the person remembers the corpse of Welker trying to run routes 2014+ and not him at his peak around 2010 or 2011 where him and TB12 were literally unstoppable.

Look anyway I will leave it as that because I am the last person who should be called a Welker fan. It is just that I feel people don't appreciate how good he was in his time with us.

A Defiant Goose said:

People give Welker a bad rap because of that one Super Bowl drop. It's really all there is too it. But Welker was ****ing insane in our offense. Outstanding. Loved him here

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There is also resentment for how he left, I think. Left for less money to go play with ****ing Manning.

fnordcircle said:

Sorry man, I'm just stressing some medical **** tomorrow and I don't wanna argue. I actually really try to not fall prey to recency bias like people do with Curtis Martin, for example.

I might be putting too much stress on Julian's 2 clutch catches in the SBs. His catch against the Seahawks where I think he was running while basically knocked out and the obvious one against Atlanta. All-time great plays in the biggest stage carry a lot of weight with me. I also think he was more of a leader than Seymour but it's impossible to know unless you're in the locker room.

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2001-2008 the pats didn't need Seymour to be a leader.....they had bruschi vrabel micginest harrison wilfork ....team didn't need him to be a leader

as for him sucking? screw that

IllegalContact said:

as for him sucking? screw that

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He sucked, anyone who knows football knows that. I stake my reputation on it.