SB 49 Belichick non timeout call -- different perspective

mosslost · Jan 18, 2019

betterthanthealternative said:
I don't understand why Belichick's answer to the question isn't just accepted at face value.

because it is false

festy1986 · Jan 18, 2019

Revisionist history turns a ugly head around here alot.

Fact is, bill blew that and had they scored that's all we would of ever said about that game.

Not calling those timeouts is NOT the reason butler intercepted the ball.

Brandon Manning · Jan 18, 2019

mosslost said:
because it is false

How do you know his answer is false?

RobertWeathers · Jan 18, 2019

mosslost said:
Actually Belichick himself defends Pete's decision to throw on that down all the time. In fact the premise of the article I just read is that what Belichick was hoping would happen did NOT happen. And he did basically luck out. Because if it dropped incomplete, they still had their time out and could run twice. Belichick wanted Pete to run on that down, and Pete threw.

Correct but Bevell should have called a fade.

mosslost · Jan 18, 2019

Brandon Manning said:
How do you know his answer is false?

I don't.

Brandon Manning · Jan 18, 2019

robertweathers said:
Correct but Bevell should have called a fade.

This. The issue isn't so much that they decided to pass. It's that they decided to throw a slant like they did. They threw it in a very dangerous area.

And BB is heavily criticized for the Butler benching. But if Butler doesn't pick that ball, and Seattle scores a TD with virtually no time left, BB is likely still being roasted to this day. But that's what makes him a great coach. In the flow of the game, he sensed Seattle was disorganized (Thats what he said in the documentary). Quote:"Something just didn't look right over there". To me it's kind of the opposite of what Dave Roberts did in game 1. Despite his pitcher doing well, he looked at the stats and went to the bullpen. Red Sox proceed to abuse the reliever, and ultimately the Dodgers lose game 1. Sometimes you have to go with the flow of the game.

RobertWeathers · Jan 18, 2019

Brandon Manning said:
This. The issue isn't so much that they decided to pass. It's that they decided to throw a slant like they did. They threw it in a very dangerous area.

Josh called the fade to Marty. That shows Bill has no problem throwing at the goal line.

Anytime Tom throws at the goal line its out in the flat, fade or a quick hitch. Never a slant up the middle...jesus

mosslost · Jan 18, 2019

robertweathers said:
Correct but Bevell should have called a fade.

Ok.

My point is really that I always hear that BB wanted them to PASS and was baiting them to PASS, but in reality he wanted them to run and obviously stop that run. There is also some good mythology that he was expecting that exact pass play, just because they did practice for it. Belichick wanted them to RUN and he wanted to stop the run.

I am sure he will take what happened without argument though.

My REAL main point, was I have always thought it was a terrible call by him, but that article made me at least think about how, IF the Seahawks had run, and got stuffed. Pete then calls last time out with about 15 seconds, and it is third down...

NOW think about that. If he runs again and is stopped, he cannot spike it on 4th down.... He has to rush the next play. When thinking Belichick wanted and expected Pete to run, the decision to not call the time out seems better to me.

anyways

mosslost · Jan 18, 2019

robertweathers said:
Josh called the fade to Marty. That shows Bill has no problem throwing at the goal line.

Anytime Tom throws at the goal line its out in the flat, fade or a quick hitch. Never a slant up the middle...jesus

right,

I did not like that one to Brown in Denver in 2005 though....

chris_in_sunnyvale · Jan 18, 2019

mosslost said:
fair enough, but the point of my OP is that he actually specifically was expecting a run and wanted the run. He was NOT trying to get Pete to pass, because of the HUGE irony, that a PASS was the RIGHT move at that moment, as long as Belichick did not call the time out.

If he had called the time out at 1:00 to save Brady time on the clock, the Hawks would have been able to do anything they wanted for two downs. So Belichick did make the call and it was gutsy as hell, the only difference I am saying is he WANTED them to run the ball and he wanted us to stop it obviously.

That flies in the face of all the "Belichick was daring him to pass". Belichick wanted a stop on a run play, so Seattle called the time out.

To clarify my point, I don't think BB cared if they ran or passed. I think he decided the game ends with his D, win or lose, and there was no way in hell he was calling a TO to allow Seattle to regroup. Based on how they prepped for the Butler play in practice, I assume he had a ton of confidence in his D to execute at the goal line. He felt his decision to let his prepared D handle things was his best odds. He guessed right.

Regards,
Chris

Ice_Ice_Brady · Jan 18, 2019

I don’t see any possible way statistical probabilities would favor running the clock down, no matter how confident you are in stopping a play. The extremely obvious decision was to call a timeout and ensure Brady has a full minute (probably down by 3 and very doable.). The craziness of not calling a timeout really messed with the Seahawks since it was so obviously the correct call. Belichick chose chaos/having iron balls over reason, and it worked, as it does sometimes in football.

mosslost · Jan 18, 2019

chris_in_sunnyvale said:
To clarify my point, I don't think BB cared if they ran or passed. I think he decided the game ends with his D, win or lose, and there was no way in hell he was calling a TO to allow Seattle to regroup. Based on how they prepped for the Butler play in practice, I assume he had a ton of confidence in his D to execute at the goal line. He felt his decision to let his prepared D handle things was his best odds. He guessed right.

Regards,
Chris

well like it or not, it will ALWAYS remain debatable whether it was the right call. If they had scored, the Pats would have needed a FG to tie. Brady with 56 seconds and timeouts that would have been totally doable. (tough b ut doable) So no matter what anyone says calling time out there would have been a "right call" as well.

chris_in_sunnyvale · Jan 18, 2019

mosslost said:
well like it or not, it will ALWAYS remain debatable whether it was the right call. If they had scored, the Pats would have needed a FG to tie. Brady with 56 seconds and timeouts that would have been totally doable. (tough b ut doable) So no matter what anyone says calling time out there would have been a "right call" as well.

Of course. Winning and losing are binary outcomes. The decisions leading up to that are not. If BB felt his decision gave them the best odds to win over alternatives, he made the right call. As 4th-and-2 from 2009 showed, most people struggle with separating the binary outcome from the odds calculation in a decision, especially if the undesirable outcome occurs.

Regards,
Chris

RobertWeathers · Jan 18, 2019

mosslost said:
Ok.

My point is really that I always hear that BB wanted them to PASS and was baiting them to PASS, but in reality he wanted them to run and obviously stop that run. There is also some good mythology that he was expecting that exact pass play, just because they did practice for it. Belichick wanted them to RUN and he wanted to stop the run.

I am sure he will take what happened without argument though.

My REAL main point, was I have always thought it was a terrible call by him, but that article made me at least think about how, IF the Seahawks had run, and got stuffed. Pete then calls last time out with about 15 seconds, and it is third down...

NOW think about that. If he runs again and is stopped, he cannot spike it on 4th down.... He has to rush the next play. When thinking Belichick wanted and expected Pete to run, the decision to not call the time out seems better to me.

anyways

mosslost said:
right,

I did not like that one to Brown in Denver in 2005 though....

We're good.

I have no idea what Bill wanted. We know he called a GD w/ 3 CBs after Bevell sent in a particular package.

I do not want to talk about Denver in 05. I'm still annoyed.

PatsDeb · Jan 18, 2019

Hasn't BB confirmed that he didn't call the TO (when all of us were screaming for him to do so) because he could see confusion on their sideline? You can see it too, in a replay of the game. The Seahawks were expecting the Pats to call TO too (who, except BB, wouldn't in that situation?). Then they put Malcolm in because of whatever personnel Seattle sent in, Malcolm recognized the formation, and the rest is history. I don't think BB knew what they were going to call, or was trying to get them to use their TO. He thought they were confused, and it might make them screw up, which it did.

BTTA · Jan 18, 2019

PatsDeb said:
Hasn't BB confirmed that he didn't call the TO (when all of us were screaming for him to do so) because he could see confusion on their sideline? You can see it too, in a replay of the game. The Seahawks were expecting the Pats to call TO too (who, except BB, wouldn't in that situation?). Then they put Malcolm in because of whatever personnel Seattle sent in, Malcolm recognized the formation, and the rest is history. I don't think BB knew what they were going to call, or was trying to get them to use their TO. He thought they were confused, and it might make them screw up, which it did.

Exactly. He was just playing the odds. There's a dozen ways to play it, and the coach is paying attention to a couple dozen things going on, and he decides that the confusion on the Seattle sideline is going to cause them to under-perform in some way, and leans into that. He could have leaned into something else. He didn't, and it paid off for him. He should just be given credit for having one go his way.

But more importantly, why in the world would a Pats fan want to put himself through the misery of imagining it going a different way? Its football. All kinds of weird stuff happens. When the ball bounces your way, you have a beer. This decision in a fleeting moment shouldn't be made into a science that doesn't exist, out of some masochistic need to imagine a darker outcome.

Brandon Manning · Jan 18, 2019

Oral history of Super Bowl XLIX’s final drive

bormio · Jan 18, 2019

TB_Helmet said:
Well I was screaming at my TV for him to take a timeout, probably similar to most of us.

In the Do Your Job documentary Belichick said that he thought about taking the timeout but specifically didn't because he looked across the field and saw they were all disorganized.

One of the assistants (Patricia? Forget who exactly) said that he told Belichick that everyone was asking for a timeout and Belichick said "Yeah I know. I'm good". And the assistant said that it was the loneliest moment of his life.

So because that's a great story, it might be revisionist history on the part of Belichick, maybe your theory is right. However, I choose to believe him, since it's one of the greatest coaching moments of his career and I love it.

On the other hand, if the Seahawks had scored and we were left with less time for a desperation drive because he didn't call timeout, Belichick would have gotten crushed for it. So I'm glad it worked

Which is why it was gutsy beyond belief. He would have gotten crushed, AND DID NOT CARE.

rochrist · Jan 18, 2019

mosslost said:
This is totaly not true. He could have called timeout with 1:00 on the clock. If they had run it in with 16 seconds left on the clock it would have gone down in history as one of his worst blunders ever.

But they didn't, did they? So, he's right, and you're still an idiot.

rochrist · Jan 18, 2019

robertweathers said:
Josh called the fade to Marty. That shows Bill has no problem throwing at the goal line.

Anytime Tom throws at the goal line its out in the flat, fade or a quick hitch. Never a slant up the middle...jesus

They hardly ever throw that slant period. I'm not sure why.

SB 49 Belichick non timeout call -- different perspective

Pro Bowl Player

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Practice Squad Player

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

Pro Bowl Player

Practice Squad Player

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

Pro Bowl Player

Pro Bowl Player

In the Starting Line-Up

I heard 10,000 whispering and nobody listening

Pro Bowl Player

In the Starting Line-Up

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

PatsFans.com Supporter

He/Him

Practice Squad Player

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Similar threads