Trey Flowers

Vatahala said:

Is the difference between Pats offering 5 years at $60 Mil and a less successful team offering 5 at $75 Mil worth suffering through 3-13 seasons like Chandler Jones does? Seriously what does that extra 15 million buy that you couldn't afford with $60 million.

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I can think of 15 million other things.

Flowers has somewhat quietly had a fantastic year. I find myself saying a few times a game "man he is so good." Just a very solid player. I would love for them to keep him.

Vatahala said:

Is the difference between Pats offering 5 years at $60 Mil and a less successful team offering 5 at $75 Mil worth suffering through 3-13 seasons like Chandler Jones does? Seriously what does that extra 15 million buy that you couldn't afford with $60 million.

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$15 million buys you the secured wealth of another generation or two. It's huge.

Patjew said:

$15 million buys you the secured wealth of another generation or two. It's huge.

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Yeah, I think the team comparison goes out the window if you’re talking an overall 20% difference in pay at this level. Generational wealth is the right way to think of it. He can set himself and his family up to do whatever they want for the rest of his life with this contract. $15m he doesn’t need to touch now can be 4-5x that in a couple decades without even investing that aggressively. Until the floodwaters rise and earth becomes uninhabitable for humans, of course. Oh, wrong forum?

Maybe Chandler Jones doesn’t consider it “suffering” that his team sucks. The weather might be vastly preferable to him, he already has a SB ring, he likes having a new coach every year, etc. The value proposition for each individual player, like each person in any profession, is always going to vary. If you’re comparing, in guaranteed money terms, $42m from NE vs $45m from the Bills, then maybe you allow the team/lifestyle/climate comparison to steer you back to NE. But change the Bills to the Cowboys or LA and they convince you you’re the missing piece...well then the money might matter again. It’s not a simple equation like Madden franchise mode; they’re people who can and will do things others consider irrational.

ScottishPatriots said:

Unlikely he's back and he's going to get big money from someone.

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I’m very annoyed with this assumption. The whole “guy will cost a lot of money, so the Pats won’t resign him” rhetoric is getting old.

Maybe Bill finds high value in the type of player that Flowers is? He’s a complete defensive end who does everything well, and also shows up strong in the postseason.

Pass rushers in the past who lived up to this expectation (Willie, Vrabel, Nink) lasted here a long time.

5yrs/$75M? Do it, Bill.

Regards,
Chris

farn said:

I fully understand your position and I suspect most here would agree with you.

If I’m making the call, I choose quality of life instead of “only the money”. I’m not talking 1/4 the $, but rather I would choose to make 50M where I’m happy over 75M where I’m less happy... I don’t know Flowers, so I don’t know what makes him happy.

I think too many posters always argue “the most money always makes the most sense”. But when you are talking about being very rich vs very very rich, I think some people would consider more factors.

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I think one things a lot of fans forget is that they care a lot more about game outcomes than a lot of players do. Sure, the players want to win and get upset when they don't, but ultimately it's a job. I could absolutely believe one could have a much higher quality of life (and have more money) playing for a players' coach and going 8-8 year after year than playing for less for a hardass like Belichick.

Joey007 said:

Pass rushers in the past who lived up to this expectation (Willie, Vrabel, Nink) lasted here a long time.

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You mentioned 3 players who didn’t cost much. That’s why they were here for a long time.

I will eat crow if the Pats sign him to a deal that most people believe he will get ($15M per year).

It will be very interesting to see what Trey Flowers gets in the open market.

TheRainMaker said:

You mentioned 3 players who didn’t cost much. That’s why they were here for a long time.

I will eat crow if the Pats sign him to a deal that most people believe he will get ($15M per year).

It will be very interesting to see what Trey Flowers gets in the open market.

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While they didn’t cost as much, do remember that everyone is more expensive now. You simply have to pay big money now for significant players.

Vatahala said:

Is the difference between Pats offering 5 years at $60 Mil and a less successful team offering 5 at $75 Mil worth suffering through 3-13 seasons like Chandler Jones does? Seriously what does that extra 15 million buy that you couldn't afford with $60 million.

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farn said:

I fully understand your position and I suspect most here would agree with you.

If I’m making the call, I choose quality of life instead of “only the money”. I’m not talking 1/4 the $, but rather I would choose to make 50M where I’m happy over 75M where I’m less happy... I don’t know Flowers, so I don’t know what makes him happy.

I think too many posters always argue “the most money always makes the most sense”. But when you are talking about being very rich vs very very rich, I think some people would consider more factors.

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I get where you guys are coming from, but your examples (20 percent and 50 percent more) are too extreme.

I think you make a valid argument if you say, 14m AAV versus 15m AAV on the next contract, or something to that effect. Otherwise, you’re asking him to leave a ton of money on the table. Even in my example, we see players do it all of the time. After all, there are 12 playoff teams every year and another handful like the Steelers, Browns and Vikes, who are still competing late into the season. If you look at it that way, there are about 16 teams or roughly 50% who have a legitimate shot at making the playoffs.

Warm weather, pretty girls, cheaper taxes, and a more laid back head coach can often be just as appealing as going to the playoffs every year—especially if you’re getting paid more!

Just reading this and I find it crazy that anyone would think 15 mil is chump change. Money isn't everything when deciding free agency, but it should be the primary factor especially for people that have poor backgrounds. Bad teams are an easy choice. I can definitely see how playing only 16 games a year while making more money is ideal for many players when winning a superbowl is far from a guarantee especially in our one game elimination set up.

Who knows what Flowers will choose but I think he is gone for many reasons. He is a beast but I don't necessarily think it is a good idea to pay him what he could fetch. At the end of the day he isn't a 10+ sack guy and might be better to spend that money on better defensive tackles than what we have at the moment.

IcyPatriot said:

Miguel did a great extremely in depth piece on that:
Miguel's Mailbag: Crafting a fair deal for Trey Flowers | Boston Sports Journal

Compared him to Danielle Hunter and Olivier Vernon and Carlos Dunlap due to recent contract.

He came up with $75,000,000 with $20,000,000 signing and $46,000,000 guarantee.

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I'm definitely going with Miguel on this. That's an affordable number for the Pats and I don't think Flowers is going to see offers that are significantly higher.

Pay him! If we had another quality D lineman he would have had 10+ sacks this season. He’s a force on the edge both vs pass and run, and when he kicks inside he still gets pressure. Flowers is ridiculously underrated!

AzorianPats said:

Pay him! If we had another quality D lineman he would have had 10+ sacks this season. He’s a force on the edge both vs pass and run, and when he kicks inside he still gets pressure. Flowers is ridiculously underrated!

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Exactly some Teams have two maybe three guys on their Front 7 we have only one. Flowers would have been a 10 sacks guy if we had another guy not named Adrian Clearout.

PatsFan2 said:

Flowers would have been a 10 sacks guy if we had another guy not named Adrian Clearout.

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Terrible free agent signing as a rotational DE. Pretty much the opposite of what we got from Chris Long.

supafly said:

Terrible free agent signing as a rotational DE. Pretty much the opposite of what we got from Chris Long.

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I hated the signing guy got 6 sacks in 2017 courtesy of an Injured Cowboys OLine. Adrian Clearout had buyer beware written all over him in FA *sighs*. I hope they have a thank you out clause in the offseason.

PatsFan2 said:

I hated the signing guy got 6 sacks in 2017 courtesy of an Injured Cowboys OLine. Adrian Clearout had buyer beware written all over him in FA *sighs*. I hope they have a thank you out clause in the offseason.

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Oh, he’s long gone. He’s not worth the cap hit and he’s recently been a healthy scratch after a mediocre year at best.

supafly said:

I get where you guys are coming from, but your examples (20 percent and 50 percent more) are too extreme.

I think you make a valid argument if you say, 14m AAV versus 15m AAV on the next contract, or something to that effect. Otherwise, you’re asking him to leave a ton of money on the table. Even in my example, we see players do it all of the time. After all, there are 12 playoff teams every year and another handful like the Steelers, Browns and Vikes, who are still competing late into the season. If you look at it that way, there are about 16 teams or roughly 50% who have a legitimate shot at making the playoffs.

Warm weather, pretty girls, cheaper taxes, and a more laid back head coach can often be just as appealing as going to the playoffs every year—especially if you’re getting paid more!

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I don't think it's extreme. I chose a career that doesn't pay that well because I like it vs taking a job in a field that pays more and means less to me.

QuantumMechanic said:

I think one things a lot of fans forget is that they care a lot more about game outcomes than a lot of players do. Sure, the players want to win and get upset when they don't, but ultimately it's a job. I could absolutely believe one could have a much higher quality of life (and have more money) playing for a players' coach and going 8-8 year after year than playing for less for a hardass like Belichick.

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I agree - Which is why I stated that I don't know what makes Flowers happy...

If it’s $15m to keep him I think we do it. The cap is rising every single year which makes it easier to do these type of deals. If we had another pass rusher to go with Flowers he would be a 10+ sack guy! His numbers this year are pretty good to say the least!

Hopefully he stays and we can see more of Derek Rivers as well and that could be a possible solid pass rush with some additions