Josh Gordon Stepping Away?

Brady&Springsteen FTW said:

Wait, who's the door knob? Is it me, Andy, or Fapaport?

Click to expand...

Couldn't it be two out of three?

Sicilian said:

To be fair, the Giants DL (while FANTASTIC), wasn't talked about much going into the playoffs because the rest of their D groups were considered subpar at best. I remember lots of talk about how the Patriots (who were miles better in overall talent) would exploit the Giants weak secondary. Didn't work out that way.

And that super talented Arizona team lost by almost 40 to a Matt Cassel led Patriots team. They were good, and they got hot at the right time, but let's not pretend they were some sleeping juggernaut that suddenly woke up.

Click to expand...

I’m not calling any team a juggernaut. I’m simply pointing out the differences in roster talent. The 2008 Cards had three receiving options who had over 1,000 yards. The 2007 Giants had a strong pass rushing NASCAR package. I don’t see those types of comparisons on this Patriots roster, that’s all.

supafly said:

I’m not calling any team a juggernaut. I’m simply pointing out the differences in roster talent. The 2008 Cards had three receiving options who had over 1,000 yards. The 2007 Giants had a strong pass rushing NASCAR package. I don’t see those types of comparisons on this Patriots roster, that’s all.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. I guess where I disagree is in the thought that having one dominant group is the singular key to making a surprise playoff run (which if the Patriots get some luck and pull off the 2 seed, I wouldn't even consider to be in the surprise category).

signbabybrady said:

Your acting like this team is Rod Rust bad and completely giving up on the season.

Click to expand...

Not even remotely close.

Just because you keep posting doesn't make your actions any less fairweather.

Click to expand...

My actions are less fairweather because I'm able to see, admit, and live with the flaws in my team while still rooting for them. Those that are inherently unable or unwilling to admit flaws in their team are doing so because the only real reason they're rooting for the team is because they win. It's the reason why this forum has more people who are fans of the coach or QB first and the team second.

Despite any issues this team has it's still in the division lead and going to play in the playoffs. And still has a damn good shot at winning the 3 or 4 games it will take.

Click to expand...

Quick, name all the teams with historically bad run defenses that have gone on to win the Super Bowl. I can think of one off the top of my head. Perhaps you'll do better?

KontradictioN said:

A mentally tough team doesn't have a losing record on the road whilst looking horrible while doing so.

Click to expand...

I don’t have an issue with going 3-5 on the road as much as I do with the types of teams that they lost to, the fact they were held under 10 points on three separate occasions, the issues with having limited weapons on offense, and the historically bad run defense.

In other words, it’s the manner in which they lost those games.

signbabybrady said:

I don't agree with 2009 analogies and I think it's just lazy analysis. The 09 team was very different. Brady was coming back from a major injury & they missed the playoffs the year before not losing the SB on one or two plays. There are plenty of reasons to think this team is more mentally strong than 09.

Click to expand...

The teams are not similar. The overall roster/drat situation is. They need a rebuild of their core players; the players from 2010-present have mainly run through their NFL life cycle. That's 2008-2009 in a nutshell, though the on-field results were a lot different from these. But both teams were/are badly lacking in young playmakers. I think people are going to be surprised. Not long after '07 they parted ways with almost every player considered to be on the second half of their careers and got what they could in return: Harrison, Seau, Vrabel, Bruschi, Seymour, Warren, Samuel, Green, Colvin, Thomas, Stallworth, Watson, and Izzo. I'd expect the same thing this offseason. The 2019 Patriots will see tons of new faces. Outside of Brady, I think a lot of familiar faces are likely to be on the trade market, cut, or retire. Guys I'm thinking of are Edelman, Hogan, Gronkowski, Cannon, McCourty, Chung, possibly Gilmore (have already discussed this trade possibility in another thread), Hightower, and Slater. Doubling down on the draft despite recent horrid results is what they did in 2009 and what I expect they'll do again.

BradyFTW! said:

Yeah, I'm not sure how "this team isn't very good as currently constructed but they're still my team so I support them" could possibly be construed as fairweather fandom. It's the exact opposite.

Conflating belief that a team can win the Super Bowl with support for that team, and assuming that someone who doesn't think the team can win the SB has implicitly stopped supporting the team, OTOH? That is pretty much the definition of fairweather fandom isn't it?

Click to expand...

Heh, I really stirred the pot with that one. I guess my OP hit too close to home for a few people.

slash83 said:

Someone call Kenbrell Thompkins or whatever the heck his name was.

Click to expand...

I hear Kamar Aiken, Keshawn Martin and Chris Harper are all looking for work.

There are some self-centred people that frequent this site. This thread is tragic.

Wishing the very very best of health and luck to Josh in his continuing fight. As someone that has faced and continues to face some demons, the fight never really ends, you just try to learn how to not let them affect you every day.

How this affects the Patriots should be the last of anyone's worries.

BradyFTW! said:

The Pats have lost 3 of their last 4 games, all 3 to mediocre-at-best teams, so you'll have to go back further than 3 weeks.

Click to expand...

A loss sandwiched between beatdowns of the Packers and the Vikings - a pair of teams who were looking at playoff runs. And they didn't just beat the Vikings, they manhandled them in every aspect.

A lot of people here, without doubt, thought this team was peaking...unfortunately, maybe they peaked.

But again, my whole attitude is that I'm playing with house money this year. And even if not, I'm not betting against the vets to find that second gear and play the way they played against Minnie. And if they do that, well...

supafly said:

I don’t have an issue with going 3-5 on the road as much as I do with the types of teams that they lost to, the fact they were held under 10 points on three separate occasions, the issues with having limited weapons on offense, and the historically bad run defense.

In other words, it’s the manner in which they lost those games.

Click to expand...

The manner suggests two things:

1. They don't have enough talent.

2. They're mentally weak.

One can be fixed with just one good draft. The second one requires a purge or sorts. I suspect we will see the latter this offseason and hope we will see the former.

KontradictioN said:

Not even remotely close.



My actions are less fairweather because I'm able to see, admit, and live with the flaws in my team while still rooting for them. Those that are inherently unable or unwilling to admit flaws in their team are doing so because the only real reason they're rooting for the team is because they win. It's the reason why this forum has more people who are fans of the coach or QB first and the team second.



Quick, name all the teams with historically bad run defenses that have gone on to win the Super Bowl. I can think of one off the top of my head. Perhaps you'll do better?

Click to expand...

It's a passing league not that worried about the run D. Pretty sure that is kind of like how BBs Giants defensive gameplan is in the HoF despite Thurman Thomas deserving the MVP.

Sicilian said:

Fair enough. I guess where I disagree is in the thought that having one dominant group is the singular key to making a surprise playoff run (which if the Patriots get some luck and pull off the 2 seed, I wouldn't even consider to be in the surprise category).

Click to expand...

I think if we get the #2 seed the odds shoot up in dramatic fashion, so that’s really the only way that I’m seeing much of a realistic chance. Not meaning to sound too pessimistic, but rather just giving my own personal opinion.

There were a lot of doubts before the news of Gordon, so perhaps that is negatively affecting my thinking at the moment.

signbabybrady said:

Your acting like this team is Rod Rust bad and completely giving up on the season. Just because you keep posting doesn't make your actions any less fairweather.
Despite any issues this team has it's still in the division lead and going to play in the playoffs. And still has a damn good shot at winning the 3 or 4 games it will take.

Click to expand...

NFL teams don't exist in some binary state where they're either Super Bowl contenders or the worst team in the league. There's a whole lot of middle ground between these two points.

maineman209 said:

I hear Kamar Aiken, Keshawn Martin and Chris Harper are all looking for work.

Click to expand...

It’s like you’re repeatedly punching me in the gut, right now. Just seeing these names is bringing on some PTSD.

BradyFTW! said:

NFL teams don't exist in some binary state where they're either Super Bowl contenders or the worst team in the league. There's a whole lot of middle ground between these two points.

Click to expand...

Not based on how you and Kontra are acting.
Sometimes teams come from 9-7 to win a SB Giants. Sometimes they have losing road records packers. TB and this team are still capable of this. This team will be defined by how they respond to this losing streak and it has 3 home games coming up to fix things. We still can fix it and this year will be defined by this not some empty comparison to 09.

Can't he go be crazy after 5-6 more games?

signbabybrady said:

It's a passing league not that worried about the run D. Pretty sure that is kind of like how BBs Giants defensive gameplan is in the HoF despite Thurman Thomas deserving the MVP.

Click to expand...

LMAO, this is about as delusional as it gets. Should I even waste my time picking this apart or do you see the denial here already?

we ain't doin' **** this year.............



unless we do

KontradictioN said:

LMAO, this is about as delusional as it gets. Should I even waste my time picking this apart or do you see the denial here already?

Click to expand...

Anyone who's watched the Patriots for the last month and concluded that run defense doesn't matter probably isn't worth the time.

You know, since Belichick obviously traded from the third down to the fifth purely in the hopes that he could motivate Danny Shelton to care about football because he didn't think run defense was important and wasn't worried about it.