Marcus Cannon

I've been disappointed by his play this year. I know he might be a little banged up but he had a tough game against Pitt and played poor against Miami. When he hasn't been in there, Waddle hasn't been much better...in fact, I think he's been worse. Two years ago, he played at a pro bowl level. Might have to give him more help in obvious passing situations. Just can't figure him out...... rambling now and bored at work!!!!

Think he may be in line for a pay cut or get flat out cut.

203Pat said:

Think he may be in line for a pay cut or get flat out cut.

Click to expand...

The only problem with that is, tackles are very expensive and unless we resign Brown which is a big if, we don't really have a replacement. We'll have to move Wynn to LT and play Waddle there and I think he is best as a 3rd or 4th tackle, not a starting one.

ashley1992 said:

I've been disappointed by his play this year. I know he might be a little banged up but he had a tough game against Pitt and played poor against Miami. When he hasn't been in there, Waddle hasn't been much better...in fact, I think he's been worse. Two years ago, he played at a pro bowl level. Might have to give him more help in obvious passing situations. Just can't figure him out...... rambling now and bored at work!!!!

Click to expand...

hopefully its not a case of getting paid then getting lazy.

I'm talking about Cannon.

The decision on Cannon is easy. Pay cut or cut. He;ll be 31 next year so not much time left 1-2 years max.

My approach would be to see what the market is for Brown. If it gets too expensive and walks, move Wynn to LT. If hes stays, move Wynn to RT as Thuney, Andrews and Shaq are fine.

ashley1992 said:

The only problem with that is, tackles are very expensive and unless we resign Brown which is a big if, we don't really have a replacement. We'll have to move Wynn to LT and play Waddle there and I think he is best as a 3rd or 4th tackle, not a starting one.

Click to expand...

It wouldn’t surprise me if Bill looks to free agency to replace Cannon and slides Wynn to LT is Brown gets paid elsewhere. Cannon has not been the same guy since he got paid.

robertweathers said:

My approach would be to see what the market is for Brown. If it gets too expensive and walks, move Wynn to LT. If hes stays, move Wynn to RT as Thuney, Andrews and Shaq are fine.

Click to expand...

So far I am not sure I like Brown more than Cannon to be honest.

That being said despite people being disappointed about performances along the line they are the #3 OL unit (Behind Pittsburgh and Cleveland) if you look at PFF. Point being they seem to be substantially better than average over the last 15 weeks.

Marcus Cannon must be the smallest 6'-5" 335 lb human being on the planet.
At least he has been playing small.

203Pat said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if Bill looks to free agency to replace Cannon and slides Wynn to LT is Brown gets paid elsewhere. Cannon has not been the same guy since he got paid.

Click to expand...

Definitely agree that Cannon hasn't been the same since he got paid...just wondering if it's injury related...either way, his play has dropped off and we need to give Tom time to throw.

luuked said:

So far I am not sure I like Brown more than Cannon to be honest.

That being said despite people being disappointed about performances along the line they are the #3 OL unit (Behind Pittsburgh and Cleveland) if you look at PFF. Point being they seem to be substantially better than average over the last 15 weeks.

Click to expand...

I like Brown. I know he had a tough game in Pitt and was spotty in MIA but overall hes been what Solder gave them. I would not overpay for him.

I, too, have been disappointed by Cannon's play this season. I expected him to need time to get to 100%, but it seems as if the issues are going to be season long.

robertweathers said:

I like Brown. I know he had a tough game in Pitt and was spotty in MIA but overall hes been what Solder gave them. I would not overpay for him.

Click to expand...

I disagree. He is almost the opposite of Solder in the sense that he is generally better in pass-pro but seems terribly inconsistent when it comes to everything else. His big body might be an advantage when blocking DEs but when he is in space (for run blocks or screens) one false step takes him completely out of the play. Similarly to me he seems to sometimes pick up wrong blocks for runs leaving a gap open for a LB to shoot through so I am not sure he completely gets the schemes.

I wasn't even specifically thinking of last week. Like I posted in Ken's thread there is a reason why runs through the left B-gap are a deadzone compared to every other option (around tackles, A-gaps, the right B-gap; left Bgap 3ypc vs 5 ypc everywhere else).

Cannon might struggle sometimes in pass pro but is way more consistent overall if you add in the run game (classic high ceiling vs. high floor debate).

But that is just my observation.

ashley1992 said:

The only problem with that is, tackles are very expensive and unless we resign Brown which is a big if, we don't really have a replacement. We'll have to move Wynn to LT and play Waddle there and I think he is best as a 3rd or 4th tackle, not a starting one.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's pretty much where I stand too. Cannon isn't what you want in a starting RT, but we live in world where Nate Solder is getting paid $15.5M per year. The Patriots will probably be looking closely at tackles in the draft, but with Wynn coming off a major injury and Brown being a UFA, I have a hard time believing the Pats will be looking to replace Cannon as soon as this offseason, if only to avoid having to replace two tackles in one offseason.

The one scenario where I could see Cannon being cut is if the Pats think that's necessary to make signing Brown (or another proven tackle) viable, or if someone offers a good pick for him. Which I could see someone doing - as underwhelming as Cannon has been, his contract really isn't bad for a tackle with starting experience, and becomes especially not-bad if you take out the prorated cap hits in a trade scenario.

ashley1992 said:

I've been disappointed by his play this year. I know he might be a little banged up but he had a tough game against Pitt and played poor against Miami. When he hasn't been in there, Waddle hasn't been much better...in fact, I think he's been worse. Two years ago, he played at a pro bowl level. Might have to give him more help in obvious passing situations. Just can't figure him out...... rambling now and bored at work!!!!

Click to expand...

Maybe he's had some lapses at times but I think he's been pretty solid.

I think individual consistency has been the biggest issue on this team. Just a fraction more consistent play (less than 5%) from each player would have resulted in a few more wins.

Btw, which one is you in the picture?

SacPete1 said:

Maybe he's had some lapses at times but I think he's been pretty solid.

I think individual consistency has been the biggest issue on this team. Just a fraction more consistent play (less than 5%) from each player would have resulted in a few more wins.

Btw, which one is you in the picture?

Click to expand...

Fair point......I am in the black dress second on right

luuked said:

I disagree. He is almost the opposite of Solder in the sense that he is generally better in pass-pro but seems terribly inconsistent when it comes to everything else. His big body might be an advantage when blocking DEs but when he is in space (for run blocks or screens) one false step takes him completely out of the play. Similarly to me he seems to sometimes pick up wrong blocks for runs leaving a gap open for a LB to shoot through so I am not sure he completely gets the schemes.

I wasn't even specifically thinking of last week. Like I posted in Ken's thread there is a reason why runs through the left B-gap are a deadzone compared to every other option (around tackles, A-gaps, the right B-gap; left Bgap 3ypc vs 5 ypc everywhere else).

Cannon might struggle sometimes in pass pro but is way more consistent overall if you add in the run game (classic high ceiling vs. high floor debate).

But that is just my observation.

Click to expand...

Ive noticed with Brown hes ok in near space but when hes out running around he misses defenders. I didn't think Solder was all that great run blocking. Serviceable at best. I thought he got a raw deal on this board. He was fine.

I think Brown still has upside playing LT. I'd pay him reasonable $ to stay.

ashley1992 said:

Fair point......I am in the black dress second on right

Click to expand...

Oh ya, that's exactly what it reads on the pic. Such impressive attention to detail on my part!

robertweathers said:

The decision on Cannon is easy. Pay cut or cut. He;ll be 31 next year so not much time left 1-2 years max.

My approach would be to see what the market is for Brown. If it gets too expensive and walks, move Wynn to LT. If hes stays, move Wynn to RT as Thuney, Andrews and Shaq are fine.

Click to expand...

My main issue with this approach is that it's relying on a lot from a guy who's coming off an achilles tear and has yet to play a down in the NFL. I would bet that this was the Patriots' plan after they drafted Wynn, with the idea that by this offseason they'd have a season of practice and playtime from Wynn to evaluate him and confirm that he's up to the task. But injuries would have got in the way of that, as they do.

If the Pats cut Cannon this offseason, they save $4.75M against the cap. That's definitely not chump change, and if you think you can re-sign Waddle for half that amount and plug him into Cannon's spot in the tackle rotation then maybe you'd be inclined to do that. Personally, as underwhelming as Cannon has been I think Waddle is much worse, and I don't want to see him back next year no matter which tackles are or aren't re-signed.

I guess my takeaway here is that I'd probably keep Cannon only because a) he's the only tackle on the roster who's played a down in the NFL and is signed beyond this offseason, and b) tackles are so expensive that you'd have to spend more than you'd save by cutting him to have any hope at signing a replacement who's a bona fide NFL starter. Or stated alternately: to replace Cannon with even a semi-proven commodity, within the budget of your savings from cutting him, you'd end up having to settle for someone who has a lot of the same question marks that Cannon has, minus the benefit of that guy having experience in your system. So for stability's sake, I'd keep Cannon one more year, see what we have in Wynn in 2019, and then probably cut Cannon after next season assuming the tackle situation isn't too dire at that time.

BradyFTW! said:

My main issue with this approach is that it's relying on a lot from a guy who's coming off an achilles tear and has yet to play a down in the NFL. I would bet that this was the Patriots' plan after they drafted Wynn, with the idea that by this offseason they'd have a season of practice and playtime from Wynn to evaluate him and confirm that he's up to the task. But injuries would have got in the way of that, as they do.

If the Pats cut Cannon this offseason, they save $4.75M against the cap. That's definitely not chump change, and if you think you can re-sign Waddle for half that amount and plug him into Cannon's spot in the tackle rotation then maybe you'd be inclined to do that. Personally, as underwhelming as Cannon has been I think Waddle is much worse, and I don't want to see him back next year no matter which tackles are or aren't re-signed.

I guess my takeaway here is that I'd probably keep Cannon only because a) he's the only tackle on the roster who's played a down in the NFL and is signed beyond this offseason, and b) tackles are so expensive that you'd have to spend more than you'd save by cutting him to have any hope at signing a replacement who's a bona fide NFL starter. Or stated alternately: to replace Cannon with even a semi-proven commodity, within the budget of your savings from cutting him, you'd end up having to settle for someone who has a lot of the same question marks that Cannon has, minus the benefit of that guy having experience in your system. So for stability's sake, I'd keep Cannon one more year, see what we have in Wynn in 2019, and then probably cut Cannon after next season assuming the tackle situation isn't too dire at that time.

Click to expand...

So pay Cannon $7.5m next year?

robertweathers said:

The decision on Cannon is easy. Pay cut or cut. He;ll be 31 next year so not much time left 1-2 years max.

My approach would be to see what the market is for Brown. If it gets too expensive and walks, move Wynn to LT. If hes stays, move Wynn to RT as Thuney, Andrews and Shaq are fine.

Click to expand...

the interior of the o-line needs an upgrade, particularly at center. thuney has not impressed either.