Run Defense

WaterfallJumper · Dec 13, 2018

TheRainMaker said:
He only played for the Pats for one year and he was immovable and was the reason they were able to actually run a 3-4. 2003 was their best run D.

Washington's career in Buffalo as a NT:

"He was signed by the Buffalo Bills as an unrestricted free agent on February 24, 1995. Playing nose tackle, Washington lined up next to defensive end Bruce Smith in Buffalo's 3-4 defense. In his first season, he posted 86 tackles in 16 regular season games and two post season ones. In his second season with the Bills he recorded career numbers with 130 tackles. In the 1997 season, he recorded 124 tackles and four sacks. He was also selected to his first Pro Bowl. The following season, he was again selected to the Pro Bowl after finishing the year with 101 tackles and 4.5 sacks, which was a career high. In 1998, he again started in all 16 games and finished the season with 87 tackles. Washington was selected to do his third Pro Bowl in the 2000 season after recording 86 tackles and 2.5 sacks."

Wilfork's best years don't even come close to Washington in his prime. He had more tackles and twice as many sacks as Wilfork. He was only cut in Buffalo because he won't take a pay cut at his age and they had a really good, young and cheap NT that could replace him in Pat Williams.

Washington was great. Wilfork was better -- borderline HoF. I'm not really sure I've ever heard anyone who thinks otherwise until I read your posts.

Snooky97 · Dec 13, 2018

Wilfork was remarkable you can put him anywhere on the interior and he would be a force. Not to mention he was athletic and had very good hands. I’m taking Wilfork over a majority of DT/NTs because simply he was unstoppable in the pass and the run game. He would push two fully grown men back. He was an animal.

Hyped · Dec 13, 2018

KontradictioN said:
View attachment 21901

Every single DL is getting completely controlled on that play.

Thanks for the screen grab. I do however see one Dolphins OL-man playing DT, LOL.

MrBigglesWorth · Dec 13, 2018

Same run issues they hadin the Superbowl... Blount looked all pro.

Adam Seward · Dec 13, 2018

It is down right ugly.

Shelton flopped, I was hoping that would pan out to him being at least marginally effective.

I hope we address DT in the draft early and often. An LB would be my only substitute in the 1st. Bill will go best available, dear god, please make it front 7.

Ochmed Jones · Dec 13, 2018

The two best run stuffers that can two gap in this draft are Lawrence of Clemson and brown of auburn.

At least One of them might be available when we pick in the first round.

But really outside of flowers, the ends are not playing well either. Wise and clayborne have been human turnstiles.

If we had any depth at linebacker, I would think moving Hightower to end, would solve some of our issues opposite flowers. But we don’t, so why close one hole by opening another.

supafly · Dec 13, 2018

Ochmed Jones said:
Wise and clayborne have been human turnstiles.

Clayborn has sucked. Bad play. Awful value.

Snooky97 · Dec 14, 2018

Ochmed Jones said:
The two best run stuffers that can two gap in this draft are Lawrence of Clemson and brown of auburn.

At least One of them might be available when we pick in the first round.

But really outside of flowers, the ends are not playing well either. Wise and clayborne have been human turnstiles.

If we had any depth at linebacker, I would think moving Hightower to end, would solve some of our issues opposite flowers. But we don’t, so why close one hole by opening another.

Couldn’t agree more about HT going to End. I think if they didn’t lose Bentley when they did we would of seen more HT on the edge rather than his usual LB position

Kontradiction · Dec 14, 2018

Ochmed Jones said:
The two best run stuffers that can two gap in this draft are Lawrence of Clemson and brown of auburn.

At least One of them might be available when we pick in the first round.

But really outside of flowers, the ends are not playing well either. Wise and clayborne have been human turnstiles.

If we had any depth at linebacker, I would think moving Hightower to end, would solve some of our issues opposite flowers. But we don’t, so why close one hole by opening another.

Bentley will be back next season. They can go DT, LB with their first two picks in the draft which (if they hit which, judging by their early picks on defense since 2013 is no certainty) would allow them to move Hightower down to DE.

SacPete1 · Dec 14, 2018

KontradictioN said:
I don't think they were two gapping on that play. Looked like they were one gapping. Look at Brown (who also got turned on that play) for proof of that. Furthermore, to be able to two gap means your DTs have to be stout at the point of attack. We don't have a DT on the roster that can consistently do that. I would be absolutely shocked to see them two gapping with any sort of frequency.

Agreed. They were in their 3 safety look and the DL looked like they were pass rushing which immediately puts them in a vulnerable spot.

My biggest issue is the 2nd level. J McCourty and J Jones are playing in the same spot so basically one Miami blocker takes them both and then Harmon takes a terrible angle to the ball.
So what should have been at worst a 10 yard run that nobody is talking about turns into 50+.

The 3 safety look is supposed to provide more flexibility than a traditional nickel since you can play it against a 3 WR or 2 TE package so I expect to see plenty of it against Pittsburgh.

I'm realistic about this defense. It will no doubt give up yards so their success will be based on their red zone play and giving up FG's instead of TD's so these long TD's cannot happen.

Kontradiction · Dec 14, 2018

SacPete1 said:
Agreed. They were in their 3 safety look and the DL looked like they were pass rushing which immediately puts them in a vulnerable spot.

My biggest issue is the 2nd level. J McCourty and J Jones are playing in the same spot so basically one Miami blocker takes them both and then Harmon takes a terrible angle to the ball.
So what should have been at worst a 10 yard run that nobody is talking about turns into 50+.

The 3 safety look is supposed to provide more flexibility than a traditional nickel since you can play it against a 3 WR or 2 TE package so I expect to see plenty of it against Pittsburgh.

I'm realistic about this defense. It will no doubt give up yards so their success will be based on their red zone play and giving up FG's instead of TD's so these long TD's cannot happen.

My question on that play is this - if Guy shot the right gap, where was the LB to cover the other gap? There was nobody in sight.

mgteich · Dec 14, 2018

KontradictioN said:
Would anyone be surprised if the team double dipped at DT in the offseason? Either one draft pick and one FA signing/trade or double dipping in the draft?

at least 2

ralmat55 · Dec 14, 2018

KontradictioN said:
My question on that play is this - if Guy shot the right gap, where was the LB to cover the other gap? There was nobody in sight.

I was just going to ask that. It’s easy to blame the DL and none of them were in great position to make a play, but 4 players can’t cover all the run gaps. Bolden is approaching the Line of scrimmage. Where are the LBs and DBs to defend the other gaps?

mosi · Dec 14, 2018

KontradictioN said:
The article is actually incorrect. The Patriots are allowing 4.9 per carry - the worst in the Belichick era. Not even the lowly 2002 run defense accomplished that. And "the best DT on the team," Brown, is certainly responsible for his fair share. So is/was the total failure of a signing, Shelton. Guy is merely a JAG and has actually been the best DT we have, which should tell you everything you need to know. They need to go DT in the draft and do it early. This year has an excellent crop of them. Until then, that position and the inability to consistently contain the run may be the team's undoing (again) in the postseason.

Wow, it looked bad but I did not think it was that bad. The 2002 run defense was that teams Achilles heel and they never fixed it till 2003 when they got big Ted Washington. I don't see this being fixable either. What free agent is out there that could work till a rookie gets his feet?

SacPete1 · Dec 14, 2018

KontradictioN said:
My question on that play is this - if Guy shot the right gap, where was the LB to cover the other gap? There was nobody in sight.

Look at the separation between the DL and LB's. That's why it looks like the defensive call is to defend a pass and not a run gap control scheme.

I wonder if M. Chatham has chimed in on this play.

SacPete1 · Dec 14, 2018

KontradictioN said:
My question on that play is this - if Guy shot the right gap, where was the LB to cover the other gap? There was nobody in sight.

I stand corrected. You are right.

I just looked at Chatham's analysis (really good btw) and the Dolphins line is stunting and as it turns out from the endzone view, Roberts misreads the stunt and there is a huge gap off the tackle as both he and Guy end up between the guard and center.
Chatham calls it an atrocious read and wonders if we might see Hightower in the middle more often.

captain stone · Dec 14, 2018

KontradictioN said:
My question on that play is this - if Guy shot the right gap, where was the LB to cover the other gap? There was nobody in sight.

Kenneth Sims said:
I was just going to ask that. It’s easy to blame the DL and none of them were in great position to make a play, but 4 players can’t cover all the run gaps. Bolden is approaching the Line of scrimmage. Where are the LBs and DBs to defend the other gaps?

SacPete1 said:
Look at the separation between the DL and LB's. That's why it looks like the defensive call is to defend a pass and not a run gap control scheme.

I wonder if M. Chatham has chimed in on this play.

If he has, I'm sure he will defend his hero Bill & Bill's unqualified toady DC.

Kontradiction · Dec 14, 2018

SacPete1 said:
I stand corrected. You are right.

I just looked at Chatham's analysis (really good btw) and the Dolphins line is stunting and as it turns out from the endzone view, Roberts misreads the stunt and there is a huge gap off the tackle as both he and Guy end up between the guard and center.
Chatham calls it an atrocious read and wonders if we might see Hightower in the middle more often.

Ah, so it was Roberts? That clears everything up.

SacPete1 · Dec 14, 2018

Chatham's analysis is pretty informative and teaches me to hold off on making any conclusions until the plays are properly evaluated.

He shows that Roberts doesn't appear to be reading and filling gaps (not always mind you) and less about the DL in addition the front 6 or 7 scheme being at risk based on the offensive formation on certain plays.

For this latter piece, I take for granted how Brady gets the offense out of bad plays based on formations and I wonder how often this is done on defense and if so, who is responsible for it.

captain stone · Dec 14, 2018

SacPete1 said:
I just looked at Chatham's analysis (really good btw) and the Dolphins line is stunting and as it turns out from the endzone view, Roberts misreads the stunt and there is a huge gap off the tackle as both he and Guy end up between the guard and center.
Chatham calls it an atrocious read and wonders if we might see Hightower in the middle more often.

KontradictioN said:
Ah, so it was Roberts? That clears everything up.

Elandon involved in a negative play?

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