This loss is mostly on the coaches

Ladypatsfan said:

THAT FRIGGIN game has put me in a bad mood since Sunday.

Click to expand...

Couldn't tell

PP2 said:

In other words, it's the typical egg we usually lay in Miami for whatever reason (Denver as well). Bruschi said a long time ago that the humidity/heat is definitely a factor, no matter how much you want to get around it. He said that they were forbidden to talk about it.

Despite all that, we did have the lead until the squib kick.

FWIW, Gronk is part of the traditional Hail Mary package. The coaches just didn't make an adjustment in regard to Tannehill or to how banged up Gronk was, they just threw that package in there without thinking, IMO.

So it was that one last coaching brainfart that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

Click to expand...

100% There were so many mistakes, everywhere you look. This is the NFL and when you screw up often enough, especially against a divisional opponent, you are probably going to lose. Just really bad situational football form the players and coaches, that we are used to seeing from other teams. Not ours!

Ladypatsfan said:

The loss is on that pathetic defense. Forget Gronk are you trying to tell me that not one defensive player could tackle that guy before he got anywhere near Gronk. NOT ONE DAMN TACKLE. THIS DEFENSE SUCKS PERIOD. THEY ARE AWFUL. THEY ARE GOING NO WHERE WITH THIS GROUP. THEY LACK BASIC DEFENSIVE FUNDAMENTALS. NOT ONE TACKLE ON THAT LAST PLAY. IT WAS AWFUL.
BB SHOULD BE ASHAMED TO HAVE A DEFENSE LIKE THAT. IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS, BRUSCHI, MCGINEST, LAW, OR HARRISON WOULD HAVE TACKLED THAT GUY. ALL THEY NEEDED WAS ONE TACKLE. NOT ONE PLAYER ON DEFENSE COULD MAKE A TACKLE WHEN IT MATTERED MOST. THE DEFENSE SUCKS.

Click to expand...

Ok, happy?? Now let’s move on.

50-yard-line said:

So they give the ball back to the Dolphins with more time, needing maybe 55 yards for a FG attempt to win...the question is: was the extra time worth the chance, since they would have to get up and spike the ball before the FG attempt?

Either way, after that Gost FG, there is NO WAY they should have lost the game - like 1-in-1000. Hard to second guess that move either way.

Click to expand...

Yes, I personally liked the risk:reward of giving the ball back to the Dolphins if they didn't score on 4th down. The scenario would play out like this:

Dolphins would have the ball on own 2/1 yard line with roughly 16 seconds left, needing a field goal. That's also in a ridiculously low-percentage area, as any pass caught in bounds (that isn't a TD) will end the game. Essentially any incompletion ends the game. Any play that isn't a 30+ yard pass able to get out of bounds essentially ends the game, and even having two of those probably ends the game anyway. When I say "essentially ends the game" I mean assuming Gronkowski isn't replacing McCourty at safety and the team isn't making one of the dumbest errors in memory throughout all four major sports.

But back to going for it on 4th down. A touchdown ends the game anyway, so now we're looking at the Patriots have a chance to just end the game, and even if they don't, the odds of Miami getting a field goal is somewhere worse than 1/100. I didn't like the strategy, but once again, you're still in a situation where there's virtually no chance to lose. I just didn't like the idea of guaranteeing Miami got the ball back, because this is just the absolute worst environment the Patriots ever play in and they are psyched out. I didn't think Miami would score, but I also had this numbness and utter horror when they had one last play.

But the real problem is McDaniels and his stupid, stupid, stupid play calling. They ran it up the middle and were stuffed ALL game. Sweeps and off-tackle runs worked much better. I think they could have easily scored a TD on either 3rd or 4th down just running the darn ball off the line, but I'm sure skippy would have called another one up the middle, and not with Develin, for some idiotic reason.

The other thing is, since it's 4th down, Brady could have scrambled out and thrown a high, sailing pass outside the end zone, taking roughly 8 seconds off the clock. Now the Dolphins have the ball at the 2 with 12 seconds left. A field goal is a virtual impossibility anyway, as the clock is going to run out before the ball gets even close to FG territory, and they have no timeouts. That would have been the best play. This isn't to excuse the enormous blunder of throwing the game away, but just why kicking a FG there wasn't, in my opinion, the best decision from a probability standpoint.

People make mistakes and have bad days - HOF QB and Coach included. Happens. It is what it is.

The loss is mostly on the defense. Had it done its job, the screw ups of the coaches would have either been irrelevant or not happened.

But, when the key moments were there, due to the defensive failures, the coaches spit the bit and blew the game.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Yes, I personally liked the risk:reward of giving the ball back to the Dolphins if they didn't score on 4th down. The scenario would play out like this:

Dolphins would have the ball on own 2/1 yard line with roughly 16 seconds left, needing a field goal. That's also in a ridiculously low-percentage area, as any pass caught in bounds (that isn't a TD) will end the game. Essentially any incompletion ends the game. Any play that isn't a 30+ yard pass able to get out of bounds essentially ends the game, and even having two of those probably ends the game anyway. When I say "essentially ends the game" I mean assuming Gronkowski isn't replacing McCourty at safety and the team isn't making one of the dumbest errors in memory throughout all four major sports.

But back to going for it on 4th down. A touchdown ends the game anyway, so now we're looking at the Patriots have a chance to just end the game, and even if they don't, the odds of Miami getting a field goal is somewhere worse than 1/100. I didn't like the strategy, but once again, you're still in a situation where there's virtually no chance to lose. I just didn't like the idea of guaranteeing Miami got the ball back, because this is just the absolute worst environment the Patriots ever play in and they are psyched out. I didn't think Miami would score, but I also had this numbness and utter horror when they had one last play.

But the real problem is McDaniels and his stupid, stupid, stupid play calling. They ran it up the middle and were stuffed ALL game. Sweeps and off-tackle runs worked much better. I think they could have easily scored a TD on either 3rd or 4th down just running the darn ball off the line, but I'm sure skippy would have called another one up the middle, and not with Develin, for some idiotic reason.

The other thing is, since it's 4th down, Brady could have scrambled out and thrown a high, sailing pass outside the end zone, taking roughly 8 seconds off the clock. Now the Dolphins have the ball at the 2 with 12 seconds left. A field goal is a virtual impossibility anyway, as the clock is going to run out before the ball gets even close to FG territory, and they have no timeouts. That would have been the best play. This isn't to excuse the enormous blunder of throwing the game away, but just why kicking a FG there wasn't, in my opinion, the best decision from a probability standpoint.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I do like your thinking in the BOLDED part. Don't even know if I'd use Brady there - give the ball to Jules let him run around out of the pocket then just chuck it into the stands when they close on him.

Deus Irae said:

The loss is mostly on the defense. Had it done its job, the screw ups of the coaches would have either been irrelevant or not happened.

But, when the key moments were there, due to the defensive failures, the coaches spit the bit and blew the game.

Click to expand...

The 1st half D was extremely infuriating, but the offense ****ed around in the 2nd half after scoring 27 with ease in the 1st half. Being held to 6 points in the 2nd half is inexcusable.

50-yard-line said:

Yeah, I do like your thinking in the BOLDED part. Don't even know if I'd use Brady there - give the ball to Jules let him run around out of the pocket then just chuck it into the stands when they close on him.

Click to expand...

That would be even better. Direct snap to Edelman or White. They could either throw it or run an option to the outside, where they could either try to run it in, throw it away, or just go down. Either way you are looking at either a game icing touchdown or running down a minimum of 5 seconds and up to eight seconds.

TheRainMaker said:

The 1st half D was extremely infuriating, but the offense ****ed around in the 2nd half after scoring 27 with ease in the 1st half. Being held to 6 points in the 2nd half is inexcusable.

Click to expand...

That kind of thinking is lazy. There were only 4 Patriots drives in the half, and 3 of them set up FG attempts. Furthermore, the last of the 3 FG attempt drives was completely botched at the end, by a coaching staff that was far too concerned with running the clock, and nowhere near concerned enough with icing the game.

• 11 play drive comes up empty because the kicker missed from 42
• 9 play drive leads to a punt
• 8 play drive leads to a FG
• 12 play drive leads to a FG (coaching issues in this drive, as this, AGAIN, ONLY THE PATRIOTS' 4TH DRIVE OF THE HALF, is the drive where the playcalling went stupid after the Patriots got first and goal from the 7.)

There was only one drive where the offense didn't do enough to earn points, and that's the drive where Cannon's false start set them back, and Brady ended up getting sacked on 3rd down.

If you want to talk about the ineffectiveness of the running game contributing to some issues, I'm willing to buy into that. If you want to blame the offense about "Being held to 6 points in the 2nd half", you don't really have a worthwhile argument.

Deus Irae said:

That kind of thinking is lazy. There were only 4 Patriots drives in the half, and 3 of them set up FG attempts. And the last of the 3 FG attempt drives was completely botched by a coaching staff that was far too concerned with running the clock, and nowhere near concerned enough with icing the game.

• 11 play drive comes up empty because the kicker missed from 42
• 9 play drive leads to a punt
• 8 play drive leads to a FG
• 12 play drive leads to a FG (coaching issues in this drive, as this, AGAIN, ONLY THE PATRIOTS' 4TH DRIVE OF THE HALF, is the drive where the playcalling went stupid after the Patriots got first and goal from the 7.)

There was only one drive where the offense didn't do enough to earn points, and that's the drive where Cannon's false start set them back, and Brady ended up getting sacked on 3rd down.

If you want to talk about the ineffectiveness of the running game contributing to some issues, I'm willing to buy into that. If you want to blame the offense about "Being held to 6 points in the 2nd half", you don't really have a worthwhile argument.

Click to expand...

Okay I'll back off on that one. I'll admit, I wasn't watching much of the game in the 2nd half after Brady's brain fart at the end of the 1st half. I was just too annoyed with the sequence of blocking a punt and then letting them off the hook. I decided to take care of things around this house so I checked in periodically until their last two drives I think. I kept wondering why the heck haven't the Pats scored anything?

So I'm guessing the Dolphins were sustaining long drives?

TheRainMaker said:

Okay I'll back off on that one. I'll admit, I wasn't watching much of the game in the 2nd half after Brady's brain fart at the end of the 1st half. I was just too annoyed with the sequence of blocking a punt and then letting them off the hook. I decided to take care of things around this house so I checked in periodically until their last two drives I think. I kept wondering why the heck haven't the Pats scored anything?

So I'm guessing the Dolphins were sustaining long drives?

Click to expand...

No. The Dolphins scored 2 TDs in the second half. The first was on a 4 play drive that started on their own 32, and the second was on a 1 play drive that started on their 31.

12 combined drives (plus kneel down) in the first half.
9 combined drives in the second half.

The Dolphins scored 5 TDs in the game, and they never had a drive of more than 6 plays. And, to make that even worse, the bet starting field position for the Dolphins was their own 32 yard line.

varjao said:

One thing no one mentioned, Miami started at 31 because our kickoff special teams is trash and has been all season and cannot hold guys inside the 20 anymore. I don't know why they still ask Gost to kick for a return instead of going for the touch back. Once you decided to kick the FG instead of going for it (which would have them starting at their 3 yard line), just take your chances with a touchback,

That return could very well be for 50 yards and put them in position to try an easier hail mary. Or it could have been a return for TD. I don't trust our special teams. Basically BB trusting them when there is so much tape showing returners running all over them was another bad judgement call.

Click to expand...

Hi--the squib took 9 seconds off the clock. If you go for a touchback, you only gain 6 yards and they have the full 16 seconds, which is enough time to get a pass or two out of bounds to set up a FG. So, ths squib was the proper thing to do.

wheresmosi said:

Hi--the squib took 9 seconds off the clock. If you go for a touchback, you only gain 6 yards and they have the full 16 seconds, which is enough time to get a pass or two out of bounds to set up a FG. So, ths squib was the proper thing to do.

Click to expand...

The squib was a terrible call. Miami had no timeouts left.

Deus Irae said:

The squib was a terrible call.

Click to expand...

So, assume the Patriots kicked it deep and the Steelers started at the 25. If their next play had gained 6 yards and took 9 seconds off the clock, would it have been a good play? No, it would have used way too much clock for far too little gain. The squib accomplished the same thing, so I don't see the logic in calling it terrible. Burning 9 seconds should have been huge.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

So, assume the Patriots kicked it deep and the Steelers started at the 25. If their next play had gained 6 yards and took 9 seconds off the clock, would it have been a good play? No, it would have used way too much clock for far too little gain. The squib accomplished the same thing, so I don't see the logic in calling it terrible. Burning 9 seconds should have been huge.

Click to expand...

Yes, it's true that


IF THE DOLPHINS HAD DELIBERATELY USED ONE OF THEIR TWO REMAINING PLAYS TO STUPIDLY SETTLE FOR A 6 YARD GAIN, things would have come out even.


Do you think the Dolphins would have been looking for a 6 yard gain there, or is it more likely that they wouldn't have been so stupid as to set that up as their goal to start the drive? Is it more likely that they look downfield a bit, to try to get into at least "Hail Mary" distance, or is it more likely that they go for a 6 yard gain by passing to a RB coming out of the backfield or to a WR on a ridiculously short out?

Starting at the 25, It is more likely that they would have been looking downfield a bit, to try to get into at least "Hail Mary" distance, and they would have had an extra 9 seconds to do that. The squib kick took away that opportunity. Thanks for making the argument for the squib kick! It was an excellent coaching decision. One of the few...

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

Starting at the 25, It is more likely that they would have been looking downfield a bit, to try to get into at least "Hail Mary" distance, and they would have had an extra 9 seconds to do that. The squib kick took away that opportunity. Thanks for making the argument for the squib kick! It was an excellent coaching decision. One of the few...

Click to expand...

Your argument is ass backwards, and you're trying to pretend it was smart? That's not like you.

Put it this way, if you are Miami, would you rather have

1) 16 seconds left and the ball at the 25;
or
2) 7 seconds left and the ball at the 31

If you're Miami, you'd rather have #1 all day, every day, for the reasons YOU stated. The squib kick gave them #2.