Happy Independence Day to my PatsFans.com brethren and sistren...

Tunescribe said:

I just don't understand why anyone would want to do this.

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He claimed that his throat, jaw, and stomach were very sore today, and that the aftermath is just awful. Alluded to having a lot of stomach pain and “double flushers” over the past 24 hours. Said he’s not able to recover as quickly as he would have several years ago but that he’s not ready to retire, just yet.

It sounds terrible to me, but I guess you’ve got to answer when destiny comes calling, and he’s made a few bucks and received a lot of fame and attention. He said that he pretty much just feeds off the crowd’s energy and vibes. Kind of reminds me of a professional wrestler who should have hung up his tights a few years ago.

RI Patriots fan said:

Technically and more accurately, Independence Day for the USA is actually July 2nd. That was the day that the Continental Congress voted to remove the states from the British Empire. John Adams wrote to his wife and said:

"The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival. It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever more."

Independence Day (United States) - Wikipedia

So celebrate the approval of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th..... but if you want to do it right, then celebrate our Independence on July 2nd just like I did

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Off The Grid said:

Technically, September 3rd, 1783 was Independence Day.

That's the day that Britain legally recognized the independence of our 13 sovereign States.

That's the day that our War of Independence became victoriously complete.

Mind you: July 4th is more powerful as a symbolic day, no argument.

But it ain't our "Independence Day".

It's our "Rebellion Day."

That's the day that we collectively declared War against the most powerful nation in the galaxy. I say "collectively", meaning all 13 Colonies, because of course we Yankees initiated that War a year earlier, and led the rest to Rebellion!

But a War had then to be fought...and to be won.

And it had to be won against the most powerful State ~ not the most powerful Army, as has been many times erroneously stated ~ in the world.

Otherwise, our so-called "Independence Day" would have as much meaning, now, as that of, for instance, Texas, which twice declared Independence ~ once against Mexico and once against us ~ but was never ~ this is not a typo ~ never a legally recognized independent and sovereign state or nation. Lone star, my @$$.

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RI Patriots fan said:

The Founding fathers would disagree with you completely. The Colonies had been "rebelling" well before July 2 or 4th 1776. There had been many rebellions dating back a century earlier with Bacon's Rebellion.

The Founding Fathers knew that freedom didn't come from an agreement with a King. It was an "unalienable right". That's why our "Declaration" was a "Declaration of Independence". They believed that the right was theirs whether they won or lost the war with England. And even with the Peace Treaty, the English still saw the colonies as theirs and their future actions demonstrated it (American merchant marines being forced to serve in the Royal navy). So, the Treaty had little meaning to either side as both sides violated it.

Not a single founding father would agree that the Treaty of Paris would be their "Independence Day". But most would agree that July 2nd was that date.

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I'm glad that you got a chance to watch that excellent John Adams quasi-documentary, and get somewhat up to speed, but you still need to brush up, some.

01 ~ Sorry, but despite you disturbingly ridiculous declarations, you don't know any better than I what the Founding Fathers would think of my statement.

02 ~ And as they were well-educated men, it should be obvious that while they'd agree that July 2nd was the day that they signed the Declaration of Independence and July 4th the day that they published it, it wasn't until September 3rd, 1783 that they achieved it.

03 ~ Turns out: The Colonies actually had to fight a War of Independence in order to achieve Independence. Crazy, but true. Britain's reaction to our declaration wasn't to send a congratulatory bottle of Scotch, but to send troops to shoot at us.

Quite rude, really.

I'm obviously fully aware that Rebels that win their Independence don't generally celebrate the day that the Treaty recognizing their Independence was signed.

They celebrate the day they declared Independence...because that's an incredibly vital, important, emotional day. I'm only pointing out that the day that you declare Independence isn't necessarily the day that you achieve Independence...if you achieve it at all.

Otherwise, the Dixie States ~ Texas, twice!! ~ would be "independent", which they're not, as would be every group of rebels that ever declared "independence."

If it wasn't for Generals Nathanael Greene and Daniel Morgan saving the War, we probably wouldn't even be in a position to have this debate.

Off The Grid said:

If it wasn't for Generals Nathanael Greene and Daniel Morgan saving the War, we probably wouldn't even be in a position to have this debate.

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One note about that short but sweet article about Greene: It describes him as the second best American General of the Revolutionary War. I disagree and would place'm far above Washington. Only Morgan, himself, was his equal, in my opinion.

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Off The Grid said:

I'm glad that you got a chance to watch that excellent John Adams quasi-documentary, and get somewhat up to speed, but you still need to brush up, some.

01 ~ Sorry, but despite you disturbingly ridiculous declarations, you don't know any better than I what the Founding Fathers would think of my statement.

02 ~ And as they were well-educated men, it should be obvious that while they'd agree that July 2nd was the day that they signed the Declaration of Independence and July 4th the day that they published it, it wasn't until September 3rd, 1783 that they achieved it.

03 ~ Turns out: The Colonies actually had to fight a War of Independence in order to achieve Independence. Crazy, but true. Britain's reaction to our declaration wasn't to send a congratulatory bottle of Scotch, but to send troops to shoot at us.

Quite rude, really.

I'm obviously fully aware that Rebels that win their Independence don't generally celebrate the day that the Treaty recognizing their Independence was signed.

They celebrate the day they declared Independence...because that's an incredibly vital, important, emotional day. I'm only pointing out that the day that you declare Independence isn't necessarily the day that you achieve Independence...if you achieve it at all.

Otherwise, the Dixie States ~ Texas, twice!!

~ would be "independent", which they're not, as would be every group of rebels that ever declared "independence."

If it wasn't for Generals Nathanael Greene and Daniel Morgan saving the War, we probably wouldn't even be in a position to have this debate.

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July 2nd was the day they voted for Independence from England and not the day they signed the Declaration of independence. No one signed the Declaration until after it was approved on July 4th so no one could have signed it on July 2nd. In fact, most historians believe that it was actually signed on August 2nd (and even later by some signers) and not July 4th.

Delegates sign Declaration of Independence - Aug 02, 1776 - HISTORY.com

Sounds like someone else needs to brush up on their US history

I assume you'll hang unto this ill conceived notion that September 3rd is our true Independence Day. As I've said earlier, the Treaty of Paris was of little consequence to both parties as they both violated it's terms repeatedly and the USA realistically continued to fight for it's independence for decades afterwards.

"The British, confident that the American experiment in democracy was doomed to failure, continued to harass American merchantmen and impress American seamen. Desperate for sailors to man their warships, British captains increasingly boarded American ships and “impressed” sailors into service, claiming that the merchant seamen were deserters from the Royal Navy. In the meantime, British agents in North America supported insurrections by Native American tribes against the United States government in the Old Northwest."

The War of 1812 – American Independence Confirmed – Page 2 – Legends of America


I guess you can believe what you want but not a single historian or founding father I know of has made the case that September 3rd is our true Independence Day while plenty have made the case for July 2nd.

Enjoy your secluded island of September 3rd!

RI Patriots fan said:

Enjoy your secluded island of September 3rd!

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Enjoy my secluded island?? Hey, I was just pointing out that you're wrong about which is "Independence" day. Just a little tidbit that I find kind'f interesting. But July 4th is the day that we threw down the gauntlet, and I celebrate on July 4th with everybody else!!

I'm not the one celebrating by myself on July 2nd, alone in the basement!!

RI Patriots fan said:

So celebrate the approval of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th.....but if you want to do it right, then celebrate our Independence on July 2nd just like I did

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But, hey...good luck with that!!

I was watching a man interviewing young people on a beach in CA and he asked them what we celebrate on Independence Day. I was amused by how many of them had no clue what it means. One young woman actually mumbled something about Christopher Columbus. I can't say that I was surprised though. I saw this coming 30 years ago.

Off The Grid said:

Enjoy my secluded island??

Hey, I was just pointing out that you're wrong about which is "Independence" day. Just a little tidbit that I find kind'f interesting. But July 4th is the day that we threw down the gauntlet, and I celebrate on July 4th with everybody else!!

I'm not the one celebrating by myself on July 2nd, alone in the basement!!

But, hey...good luck with that!!

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Well, seeing that you thought that the founders signed the Declaration of Independence on July 2nd, I think I feel pretty comfortable disagreeing with you on other historical "facts".

Of course, the people who know that the founders didn't sign the Declaration of Independence on July 2nd, also know that Independence Day is actually July 2nd (including John Adams and many actual historians).


"Independence Day Should Have Been July 2 –July 2, 1776 is the day that the Continental Congress actually voted for independence. John Adams, in his writings, even noted that July 2 would be remembered in the annals of American history and would be marked with fireworks and celebrations. The written Declaration of Independence was dated July 4 but wasn't actually signed until August 2. Fifty-six delegates eventually signed the document, although all were not present on that day in August."

Did You Know... Independence Day Should Actually Be July 2?



"I love celebrating America’s birthday, but as a history teacher I’m also committed to illuminating the holiday for those who might want to think about it in a different but equally celebratory light. I celebrate Independence Day not on July 4, as most Americans do, but two days earlier, commemorating when the Second Continental Congress approved a formal resolution declaring separation from England on July 2, 1776."

Opinion: Independence Day on July 2? John Adams got it right



"In fact, holding our great national festival on the Fourth makes no sense at all—unless we are actually celebrating not just independence but the Declaration of Independence."

Making Sense Of The Fourth Of July | AMERICAN HERITAGE


"America's independence was actually declared by the Continental Congress on July 2, 1776. The night of the second the Pennsylvania Evening Post published the statement:"This day the Continental Congress declared the United Colonies Free and Independent States."

Top 5 Myths About the Fourth of July!



"Although Americans have long celebrated Independence Day on July 4, technically that is not when the colonies voted to become a new nation.That honor belongs to July 2, 1776."

America's 'Real' Independence Day Is Not July 4



"Charles Dr. Knowledge Reichblum says that historians believe Independence Day should be celebrated on July 2, “because that was the day that Congress approved the resolution of Independence. That officially made us Independent. They approved the final draft on July 4.”


Celebrate Our Nation's Independence With These Fascinating Facts



"This Fourth of July, Americans will celebrate the adoption of the Declaration of Independence with picnics, parades and, of course, fireworks. It's a tradition that's been in place for more than 200 years -- and for more than 200 years, it's been kind of wrong.

"It is the right day to celebrate the Declaration of Independence," author and historian Ray Raphael tells NPR's Guy Raz. "It is not the right day to celebrate the signing of the declaration or the right day to celebrate independence. The vote for independence was on July 2 -- two days before -- and the first signing of the declaration ... was not until August 2 -- a month later."


The Fourth Of July And Other Myths Of Independence


Please...read some of these links I've taken the time to post. Educate yourself so, at the very least, you won't make such a comical error like you did when you said that the founders signed the Declaration of Independence on July 2nd.

RI Patriots fan said:

So celebrate the approval of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th..... but if you want to do it right, then celebrate our Independence on July 2nd just like I did.

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Off The Grid said:

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Sigh.....what a waste of time trying to educate you.

RI Patriots fan said:

So celebrate the approval of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th..... but if you want to do it right, then celebrate our Independence on July 2nd just like I did.

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Off The Grid said:

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RI Patriots fan said:

Sigh.....what a waste of time trying to educate you.

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You did burn a disturbing amount of time and effort on this subject, but, hey, don't fret...Your frothing, flailing, snot-bubbling meltdown is greatly appreciated!!

By the way: I hate to break it to you, but this July 2nd thing is brought up every year by some clown who, like yourself, just found out about it, but is desperately eager to dazzle the rest'f us with his historical acumen. As if anyone gives a rat's ass. By the way: Yes, I said "signed" when I should've said "agreed." Super important distinction, man. Thanks.

So how was your "2nd of July" Party & Celebration??

RI Patriots fan said:

So celebrate the approval of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th..... but if you want to do it right, then celebrate our Independence on July 2nd just like I did.

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Off The Grid said:

Your frothing, flailing, snot-bubbling meltdown is greatly appreciated!!

By the way: I hate to break it to you, but this July 2nd thing is brought up every year by some clown who, like yourself, just found out about it, but is desperately eager to dazzle the rest'f us with his historical acumen.

As if anyone gives a rat's ass. By the way: Yes, I said "signed" when I should've said "agreed." Super important distinction, man. Thanks.

But, hey...good luck with that!!

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Actually, I didn't have a "meltdown". I was lamenting the loss of my free time on trying to educate someone (you) who is clearly ignorant about American history (see: signing Declaration on July 2nd) with a "sigh". I'm pretty sure that a sigh wouldn't be seen by most people as a meltdown. Seems like a perfectly reasonable response given the situation.

And if you didn't give a "rat's ass", as you so eloquently put it, then all your responses would seem like a...well, "meltdown".

Just the fact that you can't see the distinction between signing and agreement just further compounds your ignorance (July 2nd signing) into a greater lack of understanding. You're obviously not well educated or knowledgeable when it comes to American history. I've never understood the ignorant (that's people like you) who get so riled up when someone is finally able to educate them. I know when people have educated me I was grateful. I guess some people just haven't developed a mature persona and can't accept that some people know more than they know. I guess in this case (meaning you) pride and a "youthful" persona are more important than learning and growth. It's so sad to see delusion and ignorance win over education. Oh well.

So how was your "2nd of July" Party & Celebration??

RI Patriots fan said:

So celebrate the approval of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th..... but if you want to do it right, then celebrate our Independence on July 2nd just like I did.

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