Zack Martin's New Deal and Shaq Mason

supafly said:

We’ve seen tons of examples where even mediocre Patriot players hit free agency and automatically have heightened interest due to the constant prime time exposure, exceptional coaching, big game postseason experience, and overall winning culture. Many of those players are paid handsomely.

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I'll need a refresher on mediocre players on the Pats that were paid top money at their position when they left in FA.

supafly said:

In terms of not being a good pass blocker, some of that is overrated. For instance, how many sacks did he give up last year? We all know about his run blocking. If he doesn’t command a good pact on the open market next year, I’d be shocked.

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A lot of that has to do with the QB he's blocking for and the offense they run. Brady gets rid of the ball quickly much like what Peyton Manning did in Indy for years. Aside from Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday and Ryan Diem for a while, their line wasn't that great but Manning disguised their weakness.

Mason can command whatever he wants but I really think his height and short arms will hurt him in FA. He'll get paid, but he shouldn't get top guard money.

Hyped said:

Mason is a goner...no matter what.

If we didn't pay Mankins...we won't pay Mason.

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I agree. Wynn will replace him. That's why he was drafted.

I also think Trey Flowers will be gone this year if he gets close to 10 sacks or even over this year. I see him in the $10M range per year at best. Any more and I'd let him walk and take the comp pick.

TheRainMaker said:

I'll need a refresher on mediocre players on the Pats that were paid top money at their position when they left in FA.

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I never claimed they were paid top money at their position. You’re trying to put words in my mouth. I said that we’ve often seen Pats players who receive heightened interest during FA due to various factors, and that we’ve seen some of those players get paid handsomely. But since you brought it up...

1) Shane Vereen comes to mind.

So does 2) Mark Anderson, who went from making about 1.5m to averaging around 6-7m a year on a big new deal in BUF, only never to be heard from again.

3) Logan Ryan was paid 10+ million a year last spring and went on to have his first season ever without an INT and only defended a measly 10 passes, grading out to be the 67th best CB in the league by PFF.

4) Donte Stallworth sure proved to be worth his SEVEN year mega deal with Cleveland back in the spring of 2008, right?

Those are 4 pretty glaring examples that I can think of without even having to put much thought into it.

wouldnt be surprised if mason were traded if we could get a 2nd rounder for him

billdog3484 said:

wouldnt be surprised if mason were traded if we could get a 2nd rounder for him

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I would think such trade would need to wait a bit into camp. The open question is whether we have 5 quality starters without Mason.

billdog3484 said:

wouldnt be surprised if mason were traded if we could get a 2nd rounder for him

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If someone offers a second, you’d have to give it some pretty serious consideration.

With a third, which is much more likely in my opinion, you’re basically sacrificing a year without him to move up in the same round (assumed late third round comp pick one year later in 2020).

Hyped said:

Mason is a goner...no matter what.

If we didn't pay Mankins...we won't pay Mason.

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But Mankin$ was paid; remember 2010?

captain stone said:

But Mankin$ was paid; remember 2010?

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He sat out 10 games and returned to accrue one year towards FA, then we paid him, and then we shipped him off to Tampa a year later or so after he played on a torn ACL...

Point here being that we don't pay a premium for OL-men usually and we prefer drafting or developing guys in house.

Hyped said:

He sat out 10 games and returned to accrue one year towards FA, then we paid him, and then we shipped him off to Tampa a year later or so after he played on a torn ACL...

Point here being that we don't pay a premium for OL-men usually and we prefer drafting or developing guys in house.

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He held out in 2010, reported after the 7th game, and he was traded during preseason of the 2014 season. And IIRC, the torn ACL occurred in 2007. There is some basis in fact for most of what you said, but the timeline is way off.

Re: paying O-Linemen that they've developed, the Pats' track record under Belichick is mixed there. They paid Light, they paid Mankins, they paid Vollmer, Likewise, there are plenty of guys that they didn't pay when the time came. Like with everything else, I think it comes down to a question of value vs. production. If a guy is simply commanding too much in the FA market, then the Pats will let him walk. Assuming the Martin contract is even remotely indicative of what Mason is able to command next year, he's almost certainly gone IMO because as good as he is it's difficult to justify any guard getting that kind of money when they can be drafted and developed as reliably as the Pats have done.

BradyFTW! said:

He held out in 2010, reported after the 7th game, and he was traded during preseason of the 2014 season. And IIRC, the torn ACL occurred in 2007. There is some basis in fact for most of what you said, but the timeline is way off.

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You're right except for the ACL which was 2011. Either way, the ACL and contract drama happened a minimum of 2 years before he left and had nothing to do with the trade.

billdog3484 said:

wouldnt be surprised if mason were traded if we could get a 2nd rounder for him

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I have Mason being traded as part of my 53 Man Pre-Training Camp roster projection. The best they will get is a 3rd round, the equivalent to the compensation the team trading for Mason would get if Mason were to leave via Free Agency. That would mean we would get a higher 3rd rd pick (rather than a Comp Pick at the end of Rd 3) and we would get that pick a year earlier. We are never going to re-sign him, not with Mason's Pass Blocking deficiencies

Mark Morse said:

I have Mason being traded as part of my 53 Man Pre-Training Camp roster projection. The best they will get is a 3rd round, the equivalent to the compensation the team trading for Mason would get if Mason were to leave via Free Agency. That would mean we would get a higher 3rd rd pick (rather than a Comp Pick at the end of Rd 3) and we would get that pick a year earlier. We are never going to re-sign him, not with Mason's Pass Blocking deficiencies

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The main question would be whether or not trading him now is worth a higher pick in the same round a year earlier. I agree with you that anything above a 3rd is a pipe dream, and I’m not entirely sure that we could even find a team to part with that—or at least a suitable trading partner.

There’s also the issue of losing another starter on the 5 man OL, with concerns about who may replace him and the depth behind them. I’m just not sure that the situation right now allows for trading another starter, at least not for the next 4-6 weeks or so. I’m guessing that he stays for 2018 and leaves next spring.