Martial Arts to improve NE Pass Rush

reamer said:

In case I wasn't clear: I completely agree martial arts can benefit. It's the choice of martial arts that I don't like, not the idea. Every time I've ever sparred with a TKD black belt, they've always been shocked to actually get hit. Maybe there's some version of the sport somewhere that's more utilitarian, but my experience from sparring people in multiple states, and even outside of the country, has been that TKD is a flashy artform that prioritizes quickness over power or effectiveness.

My hope is that's irrelevant here, and that the instructor can pass along good tips about principles and moves that will help them with defeating blocks. I'm totally for this type of training, but I have some reservations about the efficacy of TKD.

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It really known for its kicks. When I first started out, maybe my 3rd class, I paired off with a brown belt (4’11” girl), and she was hitting the pads. (I was a white belt). She threw a roundhouse kick, missed the bag and got my face. I went down like I was shot (felt that way). Might have been on purpose , but she was pretty hot, so I used the sympathy card to my advantage . The art of seduction is like martial arts . (I kid).

It’s not a terrible art, I started way back in the 1980’s, but never got a high belt, never stayed with it. Akido may be better for the pass rush, but who knows, some hand movements of TKD can be effective.

Offensive Linemen deserve cross-training, too.

Can’t hurt,

Count me among those who like the idea but dislike the choice of martial art. I took TKD in my 20's, and I take judo now in my 40's. TKD is almost exclusively hand and foot strikes, whereas judo is all about moving someone against their will in ways ranging from mundane (me) to spectacular (people who are good).*

*Also chokes and arm bars, but I think those may be penalties.

reamer said:

In case I wasn't clear: I completely agree martial arts can benefit. It's the choice of martial arts that I don't like, not the idea. Every time I've ever sparred with a TKD black belt, they've always been shocked to actually get hit. Maybe there's some version of the sport somewhere that's more utilitarian, but my experience from sparring people in multiple states, and even outside of the country, has been that TKD is a flashy artform that prioritizes quickness over power or effectiveness.

My hope is that's irrelevant here, and that the instructor can pass along good tips about principles and moves that will help them with defeating blocks. I'm totally for this type of training, but I have some reservations about the efficacy of TKD.

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Good to know.

I was just thinking that maybe Kim isn't actually teaching specifically TKD to these guys.

oldrover said:

Martial arts training is nice...

...so is speed and strength.

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Deus Irae said:

Sammy is going to be torn about the above post.

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Such power!

long distance said:

Instead of trading up or drafting pass rushing binkies w high picks . BB turns to martial arts . bringing aboard Joe Kim that helped him back in Cleveland.

Patriots bringing in martial arts expert Joe Kim to help their pass rushers - The Boston Globe

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Yeah, that's the ticket.

Nick Foles is in real trouble now.

“Doing what’s best for the football team by any means necessary-gate?!?”

Angelpats said:

Poor choice of a martial art to implement into football since TKD mainly involves kicking.

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Seems like an "infighting" art like Wing Chun would be a better choice.

Shaq-fu may be more effective. Or Gymkata. Martial Arts fans, do yourselves a favor and look up Gymkata, possibly the dumbest martial arts movie ever.

Deus Irae said:

They're not going to have to learn the entire art from a to z. You can learn specific moves very quickly. And you can use then in an effective manner quickly, too.

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Not quite as simple as that. It's not about learning specific moves, but about muscle memory training and the adoption of core principles to deal with unpredictable hand blows. You'd be surprised how difficult it is to train the mind to decipher in an instant what is to be treated as an inside-out deflection, or an outside-in. Deceptively simple, but the minute you start thinking is the minute you're on the mat, so it's not "effective" or "quick" by any stretch. It's very repetitive muscle-memory training, and that's where the discipline of MA comes in.

reamer said:

Taekwondo is probably the most useless "martial" art in existence.

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I have a bone to pick with you (and granted, I am very biased because I was on my way to picking up a 3rd degree black belt in TKD before time constraints put an end to it). Not sure who exactly you ran into on the circuits or tournaments but it must have been a bad batch- there's plenty of bad TKD out there teaching form over function and those high spinning kicks are part of the forms, and for display/performances, not really self-defense and are what gets highlighted to the detriment of the art, overall.

Anyway, as you know, it's not really about what discipline works and what doesn't, but how well it's taught and how willing the students are.

PP2 said:

Not quite as simple as that. It's not about learning specific moves, but about muscle memory training and the adoption of core principles to deal with unpredictable hand blows. You'd be surprised how difficult it is to train the mind to decipher in an instant what is to be treated as an inside-out deflection, or an outside-in. Deceptively simple, but the minute you start thinking is the minute you're on the mat, so it's not "effective" or "quick" by any stretch. It's very repetitive muscle-memory training, and that's where the discipline of MA comes in.

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Given that I've done it, I wouldn't be surprised by the length of time involved. You're not working on a million forms and looking to become so proficient that you can defeat the best in the art. You're working on a small amount of moves and ideas, and looking to improve your performance in another endeavor.

PP2 said:

I have a bone to pick with you (and granted, I am very biased because I was on my way to picking up a 3rd degree black belt in TKD before time constraints put an end to it). Not sure who exactly you ran into on the circuits or tournaments but it must have been a bad batch- there's plenty of bad TKD out there teaching form over function and those high spinning kicks are part of the forms, and for display/performances, not really self-defense and are what gets highlighted to the detriment of the art, overall.

Anyway, as you know, it's not really about what discipline works and what doesn't, but how well it's taught and how willing the students are.

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Good comments. Thanks. I'm admittedly biased as well.

Angelpats said:

Tai chi, wing chun would be great for hands fighting too. Yoga seems to help some lineman out too. Too much holding in judo and jujitsu. Someone disagreed about my TKD comment, I’m not knocking it, it probably has the most devastating kicks of all the arts, but I just don’t see it translating well besides improving balance.

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Tae Kwon Do isn't just about kicking. It's about footwork as well as balance. And there are plenty of punches in TKD so the idea that it can't help doesn't hold up much..

BTW, did anyone actually read the articles?

The Patriots are reportedly hiring a Taekwondo grandmaster to train pass rushers

Kim is not just a Grandmaster of Tae Kwan Do, but also an expert in MMA.

"..... Taekwondo (he is a grandmaster) is especially helpful with hand placement and general technique for pass rushers. "

So, it should help with shedding blocks and the other "hand fighting" that goes on between O-line and D-line on any given play.

WinstonSmith said:

I dunno, the crane stance probably gives you crappy leverage when rushing the passer.

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What about sand the floor?

Angelpats said:

Poor choice of a martial art to implement into football since TKD mainly involves kicking.

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We should have signed Suh...

Muay Thai, but then again. The whole defense will get suspended for using elbows to opponents necks and heads while delivering flying knee to the groins and stomachs.

Deus Irae said:

They're not going to have to learn the entire art from a to z. You can learn specific moves very quickly. And you can use then in an effective manner quickly, too.

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sure, keep telling yourself that and one day it will be true