Gronk Reportedly Still Undecided On Playing Next Year:

holyredeemer said:

I don’t believe for one second that we could get the 9th overall pick in the draft for a Gronk. But for jetes and giggles, let us ponder the gnashing of teeth and wailing through out the NFL, especially the AFCE when that transaction crosses the wire. The Pats could leak out sooooo much bad information. How much could we get the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins to overpay for their guy at QB? I would actually watch the draft all the way through for the first time in years.

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Gronk and the 23rd pick maybe? Idk. I wanna see gronk retire in a pats jersey.

Free_Pacman said:

Geuerrero’s “conditioning and therapy” has virtually zero basis in scientific fact. Just because the greatest QB of all-time believes in his snake oil, doesn’t make it the “most effective.”

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And exactly what conditioning and therapy are you referring to?

Like many others, I've been around long enough to recognize a hold out when I see one. This is not going to end well.

PatriotsNumero1Fan said:

Gronk and the 23rd pick maybe? Idk. I wanna see gronk retire in a pats jersey.

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Possibly? I honestly wouldn’t know. As a fan, I wouldn’t be happy with that trade one bit. Now if they threw in a 2nd, yeah.

I will be honest even if it earns me some dislikes: I cheer his talent and like him as a player, but I never liked Gronk the man. Trade him if you must.

Mike the Brit said:

A lot of people in the fitness and therapy industry are moving in the direction of the kind of things that Guerrero does. It's not just yoga and Pilates, but martial arts and various forms of modern "movement culture".

And then there's the other side -- that the Patriots don't have a good record of keeping their players free of ligament and muscle injuries, so it's not surprising that men putting their health on the line are looking for alternatives to training methods that have come largely from body-building.

You say that there is "virtually zero basis in scientific fact" for the kind of thing Guerrero does. It would be nice if you gave some ... you know, evidence for that.

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Show me a single peer-reviewed study on PubMed that provides any scientific basis for "muscle pliability" (hint: there is actually 0 that even discuss this). Show me a single article that shows that hydration can stave off sunburn, and not, you know, avoiding UV rays. Show me any evidence to support the absolutely ludicrous claims Brady and Guerrero make about electrolytes that are pretty much proven wrong your first day of medical school. The burden of proof isn't on the guy who says the sky is blue; it's on the guy who says the sky is green.
I don't give a damn but the "fitness and therapy industry" says...I want peer-reviewed articles from PhDs or MDs. There's is legitimately not a single article that substantiates Brady or Guerrero's claims.

Frankly, Tom Brady has bought more joy to my life than anyone else who isn't my significant other, close friend, or family. With that being said, I will absolutely not support the anti-vaccination-esque alt-science Brady or Guerrero push. It's absolute quackery, and it kills me that is appears that this BS is what is going to take down what was the greatest run in sports history.

Free_Pacman said:

Geuerrero’s “conditioning and therapy” has virtually zero basis in scientific fact. Just because the greatest QB of all-time believes in his snake oil, doesn’t make it the “most effective.”

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I don't even know where to begin calling BS on this idiotic take. Guerrero's "conditioning and therapy" is well-founded in medical circles as a legitimate supplement to conventional conditioning. You're full of s### on that score.

holyredeemer said:

And exactly what conditioning and therapy are you referring to?

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The idea that there is any scientific basis whatsover to "muscle pliability."

Jackson 2 said:

Like many others, I've been around long enough to recognize a hold out when I see one. This is not going to end well.

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I won't go so far as to say a "holdout"- too early in the game for that.
But I do think his contract is an issue.
I don't believe for one second he's planning to retire.
After maybe his best season?
After he said he never felt physically better?
And after that SB loss?
No. Gronk is a competitor- he won't go out like that.
And why in the world would Gronk be having contract talks with BB right now if he's planning on retiring?
I think he's taking a good look at his long-term health, but like you ,Jackson, I also think his contract is the biggest issue.
Hopefully it works out.

Free_Pacman said:

The idea that there is any scientific basis whatsover to "muscle pliability."

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Seriously? Are you drunk?

Jackson 2 said:

I don't even know where to begin calling BS on this idiotic take. Guerrero's "conditioning and therapy" is well-founded in medical circles as levitimta supplement to conventional conditioning. You're full of s### on that score.

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Peer-reviewed journal articles are the standard in the medical and scientific community for substantiating scientific claims. Please provide peer-reviewed journal articles that support Brady and Guerrero's alt-science regarding "muscle pliability." Here is a link to search for such articles: Home - PubMed - NCBI.

I love having Gronkowski here. Hope things arent as bad as its being portrayed. It is the media afterall, however it seems something don't smell right.

jimnance said:

Seriously? Are you drunk?

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jimnance said:

Seriously? Are you drunk?

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Please, be my guest. Prove me wrong. Find me a peer-reviewed journal article that substantiates the alt-science Brady pushes. Home - PubMed - NCBI

Free_Pacman said:

Please, be my guest. Prove me wrong. Find me a peer-reviewed journal article that substantiates the alt-science Brady pushes. Home - PubMed - NCBI

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There's a huge amount of literature on stretching and flexibility and its effects on performance and injury prevention. Lots of systematic reviews of the literature too. Though, I'll say contrary to Guerrero's claims, the evidence is mixed at best. The only real consensus seems to be that single bouts of stretching before muscle use actually have a negative impact on performance.

I agree with the rest of your claims about the quackery, though.

Free_Pacman said:

Please, be my guest. Prove me wrong. Find me a peer-reviewed journal article that substantiates the alt-science Brady pushes. Home - PubMed - NCBI

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Dude- I'm only responding to the "pliability"- not the other stuff.
Pliability= Flexibility. Flexibility is one of the most important traits in a world-class athlete.
Yoga is the single most scientifically- proven and oldest formal exercise system known to man- thousands of years old.
Guerrero incorporates a lot of that in his training. Most pro athletes do some yoga now. I was doing it as an amatuer boxer back in the 80's. I also did traditional boxing workouts and lifted weights.
But effective weight-training is sport and position specific. It's not just going to the gym and benching. That is also part of what Guerrero does.
I
Look, I'm not talking about some of the snake-oil stuff. But just because he was involved in some questionable stuff doesn't mean his training with pro athletes isn't highly effective.
Do you think Willie McGinest, Tom Brady, Julian Edelman, Gronk and Donte Hightower are all idiots?
The results speak for themselves.

primetime said:

There's a huge amount of literature on stretching and flexibility and its effects on performance and injury prevention. Lots of systematic reviews of the literature too. Though, I'll say contrary to Guerrero's claims, the evidence is mixed at best. The only real consensus seems to be that single bouts of stretching before muscle use actually have a negative impact on performance.

I agree with the rest of your claims about the quackery, though.

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Flexibility has at least as much importance as strength, probably more,to an athlete.
The "negative" impact you're talking about regarding stretching BEFORE a workout is misleading and not the whole story.
What studies have shown is that stretching DURING and IMMEDIATELY before weight training temporarily weakens the muscle(s).
That is true. You should never stretch cold muscles. Do some light cardio and calisthenics then stretch. But finish stretching 20 minutes BEFORE you lift. Then do more light cardio,pushups etc. Then lift. That actually will increase your strength. The most important time to stretch is AFTER lifting,anyway.
Quickens recovery time.
Having flexible muscles allows you to use more of those muscles. A 250 lb bodybuilder can't deliver a punch with anywhere near the power that a 150lb pro boxer does. It's about leverage and technique but it's also about having flexible,not stiff muscles.

Hey...I'm not playing a sport with 250 projectiles with plastic helmets trying to separate my mind from my body. Whatever the hell gets you ready to PLAY in this modern colosseum spectacle is OK with me.When the hell did everybody suddenly become experts on what others should do of their own free will?

Free_Pacman said:

Peer-reviewed journal articles are the standard in the medical and scientific community for substantiating scientific claims. Please provide peer-reviewed journal articles that support Brady and Guerrero's alt-science regarding "muscle pliability." Here is a link to search for such articles: Home - PubMed - NCBI.

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Free_Pacman???

Free_Pacman said:

Peer-reviewed journal articles are the standard in the medical and scientific community for substantiating scientific claims. Please provide peer-reviewed journal articles that support Brady and Guerrero's alt-science regarding "muscle pliability." Here is a link to search for such articles: Home - PubMed - NCBI.

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How about you provide some peer-reviewed journal articles that prove "muscle-pliability" therapy is BS?

Jackson 2 said:

Like many others, I've been around long enough to recognize a hold out when I see one. This is not going to end well.

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Probably not, but there has been a rare occasion or two where things were patched up after a holdout, here, if I’m not mistaken.

The Mankins situation comes to mind. I can’t remember all of the specifics, but didn’t Seymour hold out, too? Maybe around ‘05 or so?