Musings Regard The OL

Hyped said:

Blockers are dime a dozen. Reliability is pure luck...like Gronk being unreliable. Cheaper contract matters always, but 2M is only 1.1% of the cap nowadays.

Bottom line, I'd like to see Allen be more of a pass catching threat that defenses will have to account for. He was at one time considered a "rising star" in Indy.

For 1.1% more of our cap...we could have kept Marty. Doesn't matter anyway as I believe the Pats would have if he were 100% ready to go...doesn't sound like he is though.

So, Allen or bust it is.....

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rofl

luuked said:

rofl

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Matt Mulligan is still a FA I believe, LOL.

Just watched some tape of OL Tobin...ugh I don't like what I see

He doesn't use his hands well, has poor balance, allows better D Lineman to get under his pads and drive him back, hopefully he doesn't see the field much

NG Pats Fan said:

Just watched some tape of OL Tobin...ugh I don't like what I see

He doesn't use his hands well, has poor balance, allows better D Lineman to get under his pads and drive him back, hopefully he doesn't see the field much

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He was terrible with the Eagles too. Everybody - and I do mean Everybody - was ELATED that they were able to acquire anything at all for him in the trade with Seattle.

NG Pats Fan said:

Just watched some tape of OL Tobin...ugh I don't like what I see

He doesn't use his hands well, has poor balance, allows better D Lineman to get under his pads and drive him back, hopefully he doesn't see the field much

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That is why he was available for a bargain in a crazy OT market. If anything he is a project for Scar that will be cut at the end of camp if he doesnt develop. Dont waste time thinking about him because for now he is essentially a camp body.

NG Pats Fan said:

Just watched some tape of OL Tobin...ugh I don't like what I see

He doesn't use his hands well, has poor balance, allows better D Lineman to get under his pads and drive him back, hopefully he doesn't see the field much

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Hopefully, he never makes it past the preseason. Not sure why people are assuming that these signings automatically mean that they’ll be part of the team come Sept? Even McCourty isn’t a lock. Hill surely isn’t, let alone Tobin. Do any of them carry dead cap hits?

Right now at OT: Cannon, Waddle, Garcia, Croston, Jelks, Tobin, + possible draft pick. Belichick will likely choose 4, with another one or two no-name developmentals on the PS.

supafly said:

Hopefully, he never makes it past the preseason. Not sure why people are assuming that these signings automatically mean that they’ll be part of the team come Sept? Even McCourty isn’t a lock. Hill surely isn’t, let alone Tobin. Do any of them carry dead cap hits?

Right now at OT: Cannon, Waddle, Garcia, Croston, Jelks, Tobin, + possible draft pick. Belichick will likely choose 4, with another one or two no-name developmentals on the PS.

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Croston makes the team as a backup inside OL, along with Karras. His flexibility allows us to carry 3 OT's we wish (perhaps plus Garcia on PUP).

So, we start with Cannon and Waddle.

We can keep another 1-2 on the 53. Belichick may not consider any of the draft choices worth a top 100 pick. If Garcia will be ready this year, I see Tobin as someone standing in until he is ready to play. If Garcia won't be ready, then a trade or a draftee is very likely.

mgteich said:

Croston makes the team as a backup inside OL, along with Karras. His flexibility allows us to carry 3 OT's we wish (perhaps plus Garcia on PUP)...

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"Flexibility," in the case of Croston, simply means that he sucks at different positions.

captain stone said:

"Flexibility," in the case of Croston, simply means that he sucks at different positions.

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You believe that Game Day backups to be starters and all-pros. This simply can't happen. Karras and Croston are reasonable Game Day backups.

mgteich said:

You believe that Game Day backups to be starters and all-pros. This simply can't happen. Karras and Croston are reasonable Game Day backups.

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How do you know that Croston is a reasonable game day backup?

Deus Irae said:

How do you know that Croston is a reasonable game day backup?

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because he has been? Scar certainly has had opportunities to have others, or have others signed.

I am fine with upgrades. However, I'm not sure that I've even seen discussions of the need for IOL backups. I would think that we need camp injury protection. I guess that Tobin qualifies.

mgteich said:

because he has been?

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He was a rookie last year who, according to FootballOutsiders, had 8 offensive snaps all season. Do please explain how that puts you in position to say that he's been a reasonable game day backup, with something other than an appeal to the authority of Scar/BB.

Garcia is recovering from blood clots in his lungs that had him miss out on all of his rookie year. I'm not pinning my hopes on this guy. He's a backup plan but not what I'd consider a plan A. Cannon's chances of panning out were very low after he missed his first year but he's become a good RT, although he didn't break out until what, his 5th year when he started 8 games for us. I consider Garcia to be on the Cannon trajectory until he proves otherwise.

The main problem is that we are dealing with Brady's championship window which let's be realistic is probably limited to the next 3 years. We need to address this critical position with the best assets we can throw at it until it is solved. Hopefully our scouting department has spotted some highly graded LTs and one of them slips to us. Using a first round pick and another pick to move up or a high 2nd would definitely be worth the price if the player pans out.

mgteich said:

Perhaps, we've done this with Garcia.

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mgteich said:

If Garcia will be ready this year, I see Tobin as someone standing in until he is ready to play. If Garcia won't be ready, then a trade or a draftee is very likely.

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And you feel that this decision on Garcia’s 2018 availability will be made in the next month before the draft? That’s a big gamble.

Not only does Garcia need to prove himself health wise but he needs to show enough to play as an NFL left tackle (likely) who is only one play away from starting and protecting Tom Brady’s blindside. You think that can be achieved in the next month or so? I think they’ll take a much safer and more practical route.

supafly said:

And you feel that this decision on Garcia’s 2018 availability will be made in the next month before the draft? That’s a big gamble.

Not only does Garcia need to prove himself health wise but he needs to show enough to play as an NFL left tackle (likely) who is only one play away from starting and protecting Tom Brady’s blindside. You think that can be achieved in the next month or so? I think they’ll take a much safer and more practical route.

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And what is the "practical" route if belichick has only 2 of the draft OT's as likely starters this year or next? Do we use our 1st and one our seconds to move up?

mgteich said:

And what is the "practical" route if belichick has only 2 of the draft OT's as likely starters this year or next? Do we use our 1st and one our seconds to move up?

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Where are you getting the idea that out of 20-30 tackles, Belichick has narrowed it down to only two? Is that a forum/media opinion?

This place would have erupted if someone were to suggest having LaAdrian Waddle and Marcus Cannon as starters, with guys like Garcia, Jelks, Tobin, and Croston as being one play away from protecting the biggest and most important variable between a winning and losing season. Now, we’re so set that we don’t even need to address it in the draft, even with Waddle as a one year rental?

You may be right, but I think Belichick addresses the position in the draft. We’ll have to see as we’re only speculating.

supafly said:

Where are you getting the idea that out of 20-30 tackles, Belichick has narrowed it down to only two? Is that a forum/media opinion?

This place would have erupted if someone were to suggest having LaAdrian Waddle and Marcus Cannon as starters, with guys like Garcia, Jelks, Tobin, and Croston as being one play away from protecting the biggest and most important variable between a winning and losing season. Now, we’re so set that we don’t even need to address it in the draft, even with Waddle as a one year rental?

You may be right, but I think Belichick addresses the position in the draft. We’ll have to see as we’re only speculating.

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There have been lots of discussions of OT on the draft.

Perhaps you are one that thinks that more than 2 are starting material. If belichick has more than 2 in this truly awful class for OT's, then fine

We're not talking about taking a late round flyer on someone who might beat out Tobin. We're talking about our future starter, in 2018 or 2019.

mgteich said:

There have been lots of discussions of OT on the draft.

Perhaps you are one that thinks that more than 2 are starting material. If belichick has more than 2 in this truly awful class for OT's, then fine

We're not talking about taking a late round flyer on someone who might beat out Tobin. We're talking about our future starter, in 2018 or 2019.

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As of now, we’re down a first round pick and top 12-15 LT, who also happens to be one of only two main LTs that have had the pleasure of protecting Tom Brady in his 18 yr career.

Add in the fact that Fleming was sometimes a key piece as a 6th OL/TE and right tackle, and it appears to look as if we’re down two key players on the OL from last season.

You’re telling me that you wish to replace these two players with some combination of Tobin (will never make the roster), Garcia (got cleared to resume activities two days ago and we have no idea if he can even play NFL football) and let a couple of practice squaders battle it out for the remaining spot? On top of that the guys who are returning (Cannon and Waddle) are generally seen as either right tackles only and/or have battled some nagging health issues of their own.

Not only can you make an argument that OT is a key piece in the draft, you can say that it’s the main priority.

And you can make the argument that we should draft an LT no matter what the quality of LT available. That is NOT the Belichick way. If no one is rated high enough, we won't see a LT until the end of the 4th, when he starts taking flyers.

I am 100% fine with drafting a LT with 31 or even trading up. I don't know how many LT's belichick has a grade of "potential starter".

If your panic (and it is that) is appropriate, then we should be considering trading up from 31, if that will get us a LT that Belichick believes can start.

Personally, I think that our starters are Cannon and Waddle, likely will be so even if we draft an LT.

FINALLY, perhaps a 1st (and the additional pick to move up) is better used to trade for an LT.

supafly said:

Not only can you make an argument that OT is a key piece in the draft, you can say that it’s the main priority.

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mgteich said:

If no one is rated high enough, we won't see a LT until the end of the 4th, when he starts taking flyers.

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Wilson/Richards would seem to be an obvious pair of safeties who undercut the above position.