Giardi: Patriots Players are Miserable

Patstopia said:

So if you know how all these players feel, then you must be close to them? No, I didn't think so. This is what I find so objectionable to all this BS. It is all opinion, it has no proven facts other that Guerrero had his access limited.
I haven't seen the end of Tom vs Time, what did Tom say? Was anything actually said, or was it his 'body language'?
Your right though, I don't believe the writers, why should I? Everyone knows the Patriots don't talk, and now we are to believe that these stories are based on anything other than assumptions and BS?

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At the end of Tom vs Time Giselle said that the last couple of seasons have been very tough for Tom and that he wants to go to work and be appreciated and to have fun. Add to that the Gronk statements about being HAPPY and having FUN, Krafts admission that there is tension inside the team, and it’s pretty clear to anyone without blinders on that all is not right in Foxboro.

I find it pretty hard to lay blame on Brady or Gronk. They are the 2 best ever at their positions and have been consummate professionals. For Tom to have to hike up to a suite to get treatment is asinine. That wouldn’t happen to any other super star. Tom didn’t all of a sudden after 16 years turn into a primma donna. Neither did Gronk. There’s issues within the team that need to be worked out.

What the hell is a "planet player"?

TBR said:

What the hell is a "planet player"?

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"just call me Uranus!" -- Gronk.

supafly said:

It seems as though these guys are making sacrifices, constantly recovering from serious surgeries and injuries, putting in more time training/practicing/film study than any other stars around the league, and are doing all of this while many other players are getting significantly more money and much better treatment.

Call me crazy, but maybe...they’re not feeling too appreciated at the moment? I mean, Roethlisberger had a secret little man cave built behind his locker, so that he could nap and have privacy. It’s got a TV, speakers, a couch, etc. Many of the new players didn’t even know about it. Other star players want certain days off and missed practices, etc.

Brady and Gronk are unhappy because access to their trainer was taken away—something they need to perform their jobs in a more efficient manner. That doesn’t seem a bit different than the average prima dona complaining about selfish needs?

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Access to their witch doctor wasn't taken away. He just isn't allowed to operate inside the Pats facility. He still has his place at TB12 and the players are free to utilize his services.

Personally, I think a lot of this has come to a head because of Guerrero. Personally, I don't blame BB for wanting to limit the teams official connections to Guerrero. The guy is, at the very least, a boat load of lawsuits in waiting, if not actual criminal indictments.

lancerman said:

Check Belichick’s record without Brady, then get back to me. Belichick gets away with a lot of because he has someone as good as Brady running the offense.

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Last I checked, he was pretty much the only coach to make Cleveland even remotely relevant since the Ravens split town. And that was as a beginner coach with an owner who cut him off at the knees.

Boomer B said:

At the end of Tom vs Time Giselle said that the last couple of seasons have been very tough for Tom and that he wants to go to work and be appreciated and to have fun. Add to that the Gronk statements about being HAPPY and having FUN, Krafts admission that there is tension inside the team, and it’s pretty clear to anyone without blinders on that all is not right in Foxboro.

I find it pretty hard to lay blame on Brady or Gronk. They are the 2 best ever at their positions and have been consummate professionals. For Tom to have to hike up to a suite to get treatment is asinine. That wouldn’t happen to any other super star. Tom didn’t all of a sudden after 16 years turn into a primma donna. Neither did Gronk. There’s issues within the team that need to be worked out.

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Not sure how many teams would let a snake oil con man be the official trainer for any of the players they're paying millions of dollars to rather than having them use the team training staff.

I’m hearing that many of the offensive players arc upset, they aren’t having fun anymore because Brady yells at them too much and expect s them the be perfect. I heard he even does it during games and ruins their fun then too.

Boomer B said:

At the end of Tom vs Time Giselle said that the last couple of seasons have been very tough for Tom and that he wants to go to work and be appreciated and to have fun. Add to that the Gronk statements about being HAPPY and having FUN, Krafts admission that there is tension inside the team, and it’s pretty clear to anyone without blinders on that all is not right in Foxboro.

I find it pretty hard to lay blame on Brady or Gronk. They are the 2 best ever at their positions and have been consummate professionals. For Tom to have to hike up to a suite to get treatment is asinine. That wouldn’t happen to any other super star. Tom didn’t all of a sudden after 16 years turn into a primma donna. Neither did Gronk. There’s issues within the team that need to be worked out.

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Some other notable moments from the final episode, from the interview with Chopra, the director:

—End scene (where Tom has complete control of what’s filmed, what makes it to the final cut, and what the narrative will be) Brady seems to question why he still wishes to continue playing. “When you lose your conviction, you should probably be doing something else.” They most certainly could have chosen to end on a different note. Basically, anything would have been an acceptable substitute.

—Quote from Gisele: “he just wants to go to work and feel appreciated.”

—From Director Chopra: “I do think he’ll play in 2018,” but “we’ll see,” and that I do think “these next few weeks and few months are going to be very telling.”

—Chopra: “This is a much different offseason for him. Tom is juggling a lot of different things, and I think that’s what he basically says at the end: ‘I’ve got to recalibrate and I’ve got to find that conviction again.’”

rochrist said:

Access to their witch doctor wasn't taken away. He just isn't allowed to operate inside the Pats facility. He still has his place at TB12 and the players are free to utilize his services.

Personally, I think a lot of this has come to a head because of Guerrero. Personally, I don't blame BB for wanting to limit the teams official connections to Guerrero. The guy is, at the very least, a boat load of lawsuits in waiting, if not actual criminal indictments.

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I don’t personally blame Belichick, but he’s got to find a way to make his top 2 stars feel better, or this is going to end much sooner than it needs to. Some type of middle ground needs to be considered for these once in a generation players, even if Belichick has to bend his rules a bit.

I agree with you that it’s likely because of Guerrero. The star of the entire league and possible best player in NFL history shouldn’t have to slither away to an empty suite where they have to black out the windows and hide in order for him to receive treatment from his personal trainer, just so he can attempt to overcome serious injuries and try to continue doing his job.

rochrist said:

Last I checked, he was pretty much the only coach to make Cleveland even remotely relevant since the Ravens split town. And that was as a beginner coach with an owner who cut him off at the knees.

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Good you should check again because you'd be wrong.

Belichick was in Cleveland before they became the Ravens. Before they left for Baltimore they were not the dumpster fire organization they are known as now (honestly the current Browns shouldn't even be compared to the Browns pre split because that's a glorified expansion franchise).

Belichick won exactly one playoff game and had one winning season in 5 years. To give som perspective, two years before Belichick got there they had a winning season and a playoff win with coach Bud Carson, and the year before that Marty Schotenheimer had the third of three consecutive double digit win seasons with Browns and another two playoff wins to go along with that.

So just for posterity sake the Browns were actually far more successful the 5 years before Belichick got there than the 5 years he actually had them. And then we all know that team went to Baltimore and 5 years later as the Ravens won a Super Bowl.

To even go a step further, Belichick finished with a .450 win percentage with the Browns of the 10 Browns HC before the Browns split town Belichick would have ranked 6th out of 10. One of the three he was ahead was a coach who filled in for a single game and lost (thus he had a .000 win percentage), one was a single season coach who was really just a transitional coach after Marty left. And the only other was a 2 year coach who just barely had a worse record than Belichick.

So in reality of the original Browns franchise, Belichick was their least successful longterm coach.

So no. That Cleveland run is nothing to ride home about.

Oh and just to give you even further context since the old Browns became the Ravens 2 of the 3 Ravens coaches finished with a better win percentage than Belichick (also both won Super Bowls with that franchise).

So in a franchise spanning 46 years Belichick would actually rank amongst their worst coaches.

The current Browns were a totally new thing that had no connection to the prior franchise outside of it's name because it was an act of good will towards the city.

Captain Insano disagreeing with a post that consisted of nothing but factual data.

rochrist said:

Last I checked, he was pretty much the only coach to make Cleveland even remotely relevant since the Ravens split town. And that was as a beginner coach with an owner who cut him off at the knees.

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Well, there was the coach who was there when they went to 3 AFCCG appearances in 4 years, which occurred a few years right before Belichick arrived. That surely counts for something.

Not sure from your wording, but Belichick was there in the early-mid 90s before the team left town and became the Ravens. Since CLE returned in ‘99, they’ve gone to the playoffs (maybe ‘03 or ‘04), so there’s another coach who had some level of success. Not nitpicking, just pointing it out.

Edit: @lancerman had addressed this while I was typing.

rochrist said:

Last I checked, he was pretty much the only coach to make Cleveland even remotely relevant since the Ravens split town. And that was as a beginner coach with an owner who cut him off at the knees.

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The Cleveland Browns back then weren’t the perennial bottom dwellers we know today. They made the AFCCG in 3 of the 5 years prior to Belichick’s arrival. Then in 5 years of Belichick, they won all of 1 playoff game.

Sure, that final season was wasted when Modell announced he was leaving Cleveland, but bottom line is the franchise did better in the 5 year period prior to Belichick’s arrival than they did the 5 years he was there. So you can’t really say they weren’t “remotely relevant.”

EDIT: I see I am way late to the table with the above. I will leave my post as is even though a couple others beat me to the punch.

JHFC, haven't we been down this road before? "Milloy Leaves! Players Hate Their Coach!!"

I'm sensing today's big scoop will have a follow up headline on 12/31/18: Solder's Giants, 4-12, & Amendola's Dolphins, 7-9, Find NFL Bliss Away From That Awful BB and His 14-2 Patriots!".

I say that without any malice to Solder and Amendola. I never fault a player for trying to maximize their earnings provided when the ball is snapped they are ready to play. But, again JHFC, BB's organization is about laser focus on winning. And to win in the NFL year in and year out over this length of time requires fanatic focus. How many FAs/formers have noted this focus on winning of the Patriots?
If you're looking to have a more relaxed football season experience maybe the Patriots aren't for you. I'm sure many good players just don't want this kind of atmosphere. But for players that want to win badly, fanatically, and will put in the meatgrinder time to win? BB is a good landing spot and I'll bet you there will still be plenty 'win at all cost' fanatics who want to play for BB.
When the 2018 version of offseason frenzy is done, I'll bet the mortage payment this year will be largely the same as last: tough, winning comes first, meatgrinder dedication of time with results being the Patriots find ways to win while a majority of other teams don't (scratching their heads saying "we should have beat the Patriots. We're better than they are".

Gronk is "miserable" because of his paycheck. Pay him or ****ing trade him and the problem is solved.

And if Brady is becoming miserable then maybe he should have thought through his entire spiel about playing until 45 before letting it out of his mouth. Now he has his TB12 business built on that and there is no easy way out. Even if he wants to.

The entire Guererro situation is on Alex himself and his authority issues. If he would shut the **** up and not interfere with the coaching / health & conditioning then there would be no problem.

There is zilch that the coaching staff did wrong when they threw his ass out of the building last year. You can't be telling players not to follow weightlifting instructions. And if the issue stems over this then it is hard to side with the players.

TheBostonStraggler said:

JHFC, haven't we been down this road before? "Milloy Leaves! Players Hate Their Coach!!"

I'm sensing today's big scoop will have a follow up headline on 12/31/18: Solder's Giants, 4-12, & Amendola's Dolphins, 7-9, Find NFL Bliss Away From That Awful BB and His 14-2 Patriots!".

I say that without any malice to Solder and Amendola. I never fault a player for trying to maximize their earnings provided when the ball is snapped they are ready to play. But, again JHFC, BB's organization is about laser focus on winning. And to win in the NFL year in and year out over this length of time requires fanatic focus. How many FAs/formers have noted this focus on winning of the Patriots?
If you're looking to have a more relaxed football season experience maybe the Patriots aren't for you. I'm sure many good players just don't want this kind of atmosphere. But for players that want to win badly, fanatically, and will put in the meatgrinder time to win? BB is a good landing spot and I'll bet you there will still be plenty 'win at all cost' fanatics who want to play for BB.
When the 2018 version of offseason frenzy is done, I'll bet the mortage payment this year will be largely the same as last: tough, winning comes first, meatgrinder dedication of time with results being the Patriots find ways to win while a majority of other teams don't (scratching their heads saying "we should have beat the Patriots. We're better than they are".

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If only Tom Brady, who's reportedly one of the unhappy players, knew what it took to win in the NFL, and knew how to survive on a Bill Belichick team.

I'm sensing a mass exodus coming , post draft....the CL's will be packing up and bawking on down to Tennessee or back to NY where they originally came from.

I'm a cradle to grave Pats fan. I really don't give a shyt how much drama the rest of you "fans" stir up.

Joker said:

I'm sensing a mass exodus coming , post draft....the CL's will be packing up and bawking on down to Tennessee or back to NY where they originally came from.

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I dont think anyone apart from Papa Kraft would have an issue with purging a couple thousand of those entitled event fans.

TheBostonStraggler said:

JHFC, haven't we been down this road before? "Milloy Leaves! Players Hate Their Coach!!"

I'm sensing today's big scoop will have a follow up headline on 12/31/18: Solder's Giants, 4-12, & Amendola's Dolphins, 7-9, Find NFL Bliss Away From That Awful BB and His 14-2 Patriots!".

I say that without any malice to Solder and Amendola. I never fault a player for trying to maximize their earnings provided when the ball is snapped they are ready to play. But, again JHFC, BB's organization is about laser focus on winning. And to win in the NFL year in and year out over this length of time requires fanatic focus. How many FAs/formers have noted this focus on winning of the Patriots?
If you're looking to have a more relaxed football season experience maybe the Patriots aren't for you. I'm sure many good players just don't want this kind of atmosphere. But for players that want to win badly, fanatically, and will put in the meatgrinder time to win? BB is a good landing spot and I'll bet you there will still be plenty 'win at all cost' fanatics who want to play for BB.
When the 2018 version of offseason frenzy is done, I'll bet the mortage payment this year will be largely the same as last: tough, winning comes first, meatgrinder dedication of time with results being the Patriots find ways to win while a majority of other teams don't (scratching their heads saying "we should have beat the Patriots. We're better than they are".

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I could be wrong, but I don’t think anyone is suggesting that it has anything to do with the players who left in free agency. Those players simply received offers from teams willing to spend more money than the Pats valued them at. There was no way they were going to pay that much more any of those players, which is the same as any other year.

It’s the recent release of the final episode of the documentary, as well as the continued saga with Gronk + some new “sources” and recent tweets/articles/interviews. I think it mainly centers around four people: Brady, Gronk, Guerrero, and Belichick. If there’s more of a widespread team rift, it’s likely due to the leaders being a bit disgruntled as well as the decision regarding Butler and the SB loss.

BelichickFan said:

I wish Brady had retired after his triumphant win over the Falcons instead of seemingly becoming a whiny b!tch. He could have done the family thing and JG could have replaced him. Instead the Patriots have no future QB and Brady seems like he's finding a way to make what could have been a great ending into a bad one.

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You're kidding, right?