Sherman Signs with 49ER'S (Updated)

As much as I love Sherman for the edge and leadership he'd bring to the team, the Pats need to focus on getting younger. From what I've seen Jonathan Jones will be a solid CB2 & the Pats have many needs elsewhere to focus on.

Jones getting hurt was the sleeper issue of the year. If he doesn't get hurt, we're probably not still scratching our collective heads about what the F BB was doing during the Superbowl.

PatriotsNumero1Fan said:

Our d line for the most part was awful in that game. They got manhandled.

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They get manhandled in pretty much any game that’s against an above average O-line.

It’s been this way for years. Why can we never fix this, but other teams can? Is it just by design?

primetime said:

I think it makes more sense to address the secondary through the draft instead of free agency. They don't need a day one starter, they need young depth for the inevitable injuries and players with the talent to take over for the likes of Chung and McCourty when age inevitably catches up with them.

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Reiss said it last week already but I honestly think that Vaccaro is one of those names to watch. Younger player, fills a need.. more value than Mathieu who while a good player cant stay healthy and will get a bigger market just based on name alone.

Similarly, I think we will get 1-2 cheap veteran CB for camp and then as you said add 1-2 players via the draft.

ashley1992 said:

Although I agree that the d line and lb positions are more of a need, getting a solid number 2 cb will help our defense tremendously.

[QUOTE="Wozzy, post: 5274644, member: 39285" corner is the least of our issues.

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Having another great corner never hurts, that being said football is won in the trenches.

We lost the Super Bowl because the Eagles manhandled us at the line of scrimmage. They had an All Pro laden offensive line and all of our beef was in civilian clothing.

Branch was injured, Valentine never made it out of camp, Hightower was gone at midseason, Derek Rivers who was expected to carry a lot of that "pass rush" water was out at camp, Harvey Langi was hit by a drunk driver... compound that with injuries to Jonathan Jones and Patrick Chung in the playoffs and us running into the best team in the league is how we lose. Barely...

It starts at the line of scrimmage, if you can stop a play at inception the need to hold coverage longer fades.

Joey007 said:

They get manhandled in pretty much any game that’s against an above average O-line.

It’s been this way for years. Why can we never fix this, but other teams can? Is it just by design?

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Because dominant interior players are generally gone by the time we draft and those available via FA are expensive. There is a reason why people were so in love with Branch a year ago. He was consistent and relatively cheap.

MrTibbs said:

What game were you watching? Was trying to find the link were the Eagles coaching staff was shocked they started Rowe. Right away they knew they were going at him because he was a "former" member of their team. The 2nd best db was McCourty who yes gave up a TD but only like 2-4 completed passes for 14 yards or something. Foles had forever to pass out of that shotgun. He wasn't "hit" much either.

A clean jersey game.

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Other teams tend to diss and then target during games players they intentionally get rid of. They obviously didn't think he was good enough; this happens all the time. Most of the time the other team is wrong because they were misusing the guy while Belichick found out how use him properly. Remember Russ Hochstein, cut by the Bucs? Warren Sapp goes on the air like an ass and says he's terrible, we've seen him play. The Panthers then target him, and Hochstein played the game of his life. Funny how no one brings that up anymore.

The Eagles were shocked Rowe was out there and targeted him, but this time it worked because Belichick had a very strange game plan. Once he adjusted, the Eagles still attacked Rowe but he was a lot more competitive and won quite a few battles. In fact, I'd say Rowe competed better than the CBs that the Eagles played; the ones they chose over Rowe.

Absolutely Rowe can be improved upon. But you get more marginal improvement overall on defense by replacing Roberts and Richards with players that are their positional equivalents of Rowe than you do by replacing Rowe with Sherman.

luuked said:

Reiss said it last week already but I honestly think that Vaccaro is one of those names to watch. Younger player, fills a need.. more value than Mathieu who while a good player cant stay healthy and will get a bigger market just based on name alone.

Similarly, I think we will get 1-2 cheap veteran CB for camp and then as you said add 1-2 players via the draft.

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Yeah, Vaccaro wouldn't be a bad fit either, even if hes never shown himself to be the player Mathieu is. Comes down to cost.

TommyBrady12 said:

yes because drafting a bust in the 2nd round is the same as drafting one in the 7th.

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Ultimately, it kinda is.

LightSkinSmurf said:

Two really great top corners in the league wanted to come here and we are probably gonna end up with neither, how lovely.

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Seasons over, when do the pitchers and catchers report?

ChrisR2223 said:

It's just you could of made your Secondary tops in the NFL but we have to live with the reality that more than likely Richards is on our 53 man roster.

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Richards plays safety and ST. Adding Sherman (who doesn't play ST) wouldn't affect Richards' roster status.

Hammer of Thor said:

Other teams tend to diss and then target during games players they intentionally get rid of. They obviously didn't think he was good enough; this happens all the time. Most of the time the other team is wrong because they were misusing the guy while Belichick found out how use him properly. Remember Russ Hochstein, cut by the Bucs? Warren Sapp goes on the air like an ass and says he's terrible, we've seen him play. The Panthers then target him, and Hochstein played the game of his life. Funny how no one brings that up anymore.

The Eagles were shocked Rowe was out there and targeted him, but this time it worked because Belichick had a very strange game plan. Once he adjusted, the Eagles still attacked Rowe but he was a lot more competitive and won quite a few battles. In fact, I'd say Rowe competed better than the CBs that the Eagles played; the ones they chose over Rowe.

Absolutely Rowe can be improved upon. But you get more marginal improvement overall on defense by replacing Roberts and Richards with players that are their positional equivalents of Rowe than you do by replacing Rowe with Sherman.

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The Eagles punted exactly once, and had on INT because Foles missed a wide open WR badly at the 5 yard line. I fail to see this decent defense you claim they played. The gave up 41 points, were gifted their only turnover, had zero sacks and or pressures and were picked apart by a back up QB playing in a schoolground offense!!!

Rowe and everyone not name Gillmore played awful!!!!

TommyBrady12 said:

the secondary being the strength of this defense is not saying much...

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What is says - or, rather, the question it begs is, "How is it rational to spend likely half (or more) of your usable cap space on adding ONE player on a 1-year rental to your strongest unit while leaving the DL and LB units a total disaster?"

Going to leave this here with regards to Sherman: Return to football after Achilles tendon rupture

An Achilles rupture isn't an ACL tear. Average time to return to the field is 11 months (putting Sherman on track for October) and performance is permanently decreased in most cases. Bad sign for an aging corner who had already begun to trend downwards and will blow a hole in your cap space.

Can we close this thread he won't be a Patriot

FreeTedWilliams said:

The Eagles punted exactly once, and had on INT because Foles missed a wide open WR badly at the 5 yard line. I fail to see this decent defense you claim they played. The gave up 41 points, were gifted their only turnover, had zero sacks and or pressures and were picked apart by a back up QB playing in a schoolground offense!!!

Rowe and everyone not name Gillimore played awful!!!!

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The Patriots punted exactly zero times. Look at all the crap the Eagles defense is taking now.

The backup QB was nearly MVP in 2013, then got hurt and then got traded to bad coaches. Funny how he gets a good coach and suddenly looks good again.

Football is not baseball or basketball, where every player has an equal, independent impact on the game. Football defense is like a chain, you are only as good as your weakest link. You can have 9 acceptable players playing well out there and give up 40 points because players 10 and 11 suck.

The Patriots defense sucked in the Super Bowl. Note how many 3rd downs were converted by Ertz and Aghalor. Rowe wasn't covering them. McCourty, Chung, and Richards were. Why were they covering them? That's the answer to why the defense gave up 41 points. Rowe is not in the top 5 reasons why the defense sucked that game.

primetime said:

Yeah, Vaccaro wouldn't be a bad fit either, even if hes never shown himself to be the player Mathieu is. Comes down to cost.

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Vaccaro was on my initial free agent target list as well but I thought he played well enough last year to be too expensive. If he can come cheap, he's your Jordan Richards replacement and potential Chung replacement next year if the Patriots can't resign him. He has the skill set to thrive in that role; his problem (like Chung his first stint here) is that Payton asked him to do too much prior to last year.

Hammer of Thor said:

The Patriots punted exactly zero times. Look at all the crap the Eagles defense is taking now.

The backup QB was nearly MVP in 2013, then got hurt and then got traded to bad coaches. Funny how he gets a good coach and suddenly looks good again.

Football is not baseball or basketball, where every player has an equal, independent impact on the game. Football defense is like a chain, you are only as good as your weakest link. You can have 9 acceptable players playing well out there and give up 40 points because players 10 and 11 suck.

The Patriots defense sucked in the Super Bowl. Note how many 3rd downs were converted by Ertz and Aghalor. Rowe wasn't covering them. McCourty, Chung, and Richards were. Why were they covering them? That's the answer to why the defense gave up 41 points. Rowe is not in the top 5 reasons why the defense sucked that game.

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Agreed.

Branch and Valentine alone represent nearly 1000 pounds of beef.

Hightower, Rivers and Langi were supposed to be the entire linebacking corps.

The Eagles rushed the ball 27 times for 164 yards, over 6 yards a carry... a single corner wasn't to blame.

Hammer of Thor said:

The Patriots punted exactly zero times. Look at all the crap the Eagles defense is taking now.

The backup QB was nearly MVP in 2013, then got hurt and then got traded to bad coaches. Funny how he gets a good coach and suddenly looks good again.

Football is not baseball or basketball, where every player has an equal, independent impact on the game. Football defense is like a chain, you are only as good as your weakest link. You can have 9 acceptable players playing well out there and give up 40 points because players 10 and 11 suck.

The Patriots defense sucked in the Super Bowl. Note how many 3rd downs were converted by Ertz and Aghalor. Rowe wasn't covering them. McCourty, Chung, and Richards were. Why were they covering them? That's the answer to why the defense gave up 41 points. Rowe is not in the top 5 reasons why the defense sucked that game.

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The Patriots were also forced to bring extra players because they weren't getting any pressure. Consider the crucial 4th down conversion. The player covering Ertz was rubbed off in a well-designed pick play.

However, had Van Noy maintained his zone presence, Foles would have been forced to throw directly to Van Noy or else make a very difficult throw to the wheeling Clement who was being bracketed by Flowers and Harmon. Instead, Van Noy vacated the zone (either by design or option) to rush Foles and Foles read that and plinked it in behind the blitzer.

Similarly, the Foles trick play touchdown pass came because Flowers didn't read the play and just stood there transfixed staring into the backfield.

A lot of the individual plays that killed them in the Super Bowl occurred because of great playcalls and execution from the Eagles and poor reads from front seven players on the Patriots. Making sure the likes of special teamers like Marquis Flowers and Jordan Richards never see the field in anger in the front seven is the top priority. (Also curious is the lack of playing time for Deatrich Wise in the Super Bowl).

maineman209 said:

What is says - or, rather, the question it begs is, "How is it rational to spend likely half (or more) of your usable cap space on adding ONE player on a 1-year rental to your strongest unit while leaving the DL and LB units a total disaster?"

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agree but you have to inquire with Sherman's camp as to what he'd be willing to play for in NE. A number of players would take a discount to play with the GOAT.

patsinthesnow said:

Disagreement is fine & good. Disagreeing with a front office decision is fine too. We’re unique as a fan base because there is a spectrum of Tom Brady to BB/system as regards to team success & everyone lines up on it differently. Judging by your username we both lean the same way to a majority Brady.

In the end that’s all we want is a good enough team around him. Rowe is a shaky CB2 & having two CB1s is a definite way to improve the defense. I just don’t know how someone like Nigel Bradham (overrated, look at the DL he has in front of him) & Preston Brown will help the LB group. Draft or bust there.

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The defense is only as strong as its weakest link. The DL and LB units were the weakest links by far in 2017, largely due to injuries and FA losses leaving the Pats relying on several inexperienced players.

It seems to me, then, that the place to start "fixing" the defense is the DL - especially in the middle. Once an accomplished and experienced player has been added to help with that, it affords the leeway to add a "lesser" (and less expensive), but experienced, LB (Bradham, Brown, Casillas) and a high-end draftee to improve the 2nd level.

After that, it may be prudent to add a high-end draftee to the safety group (where there's tons of experience), and a relatively cheap, but experienced player (e.g., Darby) to the CB group (where there's somewhat less experience than at safety).

Given the current state of the three levels of the Pats defense, paying a huge percentage of usable cap space to rent Sherman for a year would be like putting on a new roof to fix a leak while the foundation is crumbling and the walls are full of holes.