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Anyone else interested in Deshone Kizer?


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How can we fairly judge anyone from what goes on in Brownie Land? The systemic failure in Cleveland strains credulity. It's to the point where it's (im)perfectly balanced between surreal and tragicomic. Jimmy (boom goes the dynamite) Haslam has gone through five GM's and counting since 2012 and pissed through so many coaches so fast that he couldn't fire Jackson after a 1-15 season (whether he deserved it or not is a separate argument for another time) and is still in the same position after an 0-16 season. FOUR COACHES & FIVE GM's IN SIX SEASONS, let that sink in for a minute. It's the absolute antithesis of what has happened here.
 
By asking if “anyone else” is interested in him, are you suggesting that someone out there actually is?
 
As a general rule, yes, I agree. The problem is that the Browns' management of their roster is exceptionally bad.

We agree that Kizer has failed as a Brown. I think we disagree very much about why.

Deshone Kizer was drafted towards the bottom end of the second round. He was never considered a premium talent, and I don't think there's any doubt at all that he was rushed into the starter's job through a sheer lack of options. The fact of the matter is that in just about any other organization Deshone Kizer would never have played a snap this year. The Browns are the only organization desperate enough to take a guy who isn't a standout talent and throw him into the fire like this.

I don't think you can judge a guy solely based on results when 31 other organizations wouldn't have even trotted him out there yet. This is the same reason that a lot of people are still reserving judgment to an extent on Jacoby Brissett, who's in a similar position. The difference being, Brissett at least had some experience from the prior season, Kizer was entirely raw.

I don't think there's any real doubt that Kizer failed. The problem with stopping the analysis there is that it blithely ignores the many ways in which he was set up to fail. And I think that's important to take on board when trying to evaluate what Kizer might do in future years, which is the main consideration when deciding whether to acquire someone. A Deshone Kizer who had learned no lessons and had no further development from exactly the point he is now, would be a disaster no matter where he goes, but I like his raw talent, and I honestly do think that he's worth developing if a team is prepared to be patient with him.

The Patriots are in a unique position to offer a raw player who got off to a terrible start, an opportunity to learn the game in the best environment possible. If we decide we have other priorities for our draft picks, and considering the state of our defense and the fact that we're potentially losing up to 2 running backs this offseason, as well as the poverty of our draft last year and some serious unanswered questions left behind as a consequence of that, I consider it quite likely, picking up a talented option off the reject pile may be the best available move to put a live arm on the roster for Brady to mentor.

Of those options, Kizer is the one that looks the most interesting to me, exactly because he is so raw. He's the guy most likely to be available outside the draft, who is also talented enough to give the coaching staff something to work with.
The problem with Kizer is that he had to be ready to start. The Browns felt he was as well. He just isn’t a good quarterback and this coming from someone that watched a lot of him at Notre Dame. That he couldn’t even get a win with some decent options in the passing game and against a weak schedule is pretty damning for him. Therefore, he was, as the quarterback, directly to blame for the winless season (which was the original assertion that I was responding to). They would have been much better off using #1 overall on Watson who just about everyone rightly considered being the better prospect of the two.
 
What should I have followed up with? Your post basically disagreed with mine while not actually responding to anything I'd been saying all thread. I figured, and I don't think I'm wrong, that a "disagree" was all that kind of comment rated unless you were willing to go to the trouble of making an argument.

You sure the Browns are getting rid of Kizer.

2nd round pick heading into year 2. Hes probably a backup if they land a Vet.
 
Kizer should have never started. He was not ready.
Combined with Hue Jackson calling the plays for Kizer did not help.
 
The problem with Kizer is that he had to be ready to start. The Browns felt he was as well.

Isn't that rather the Browns' fault than necessarily Kizer's?

He just isn’t a good quarterback and this coming from someone that watched a lot of him at Notre Dame. That he couldn’t even get a win with some decent options in the passing game and against a weak schedule is pretty damning for him. Therefore, he was, as the quarterback, directly to blame for the winless season (which was the original assertion that I was responding to). They would have been much better off using #1 overall on Watson who just about everyone rightly considered being the better prospect of the two.

They used their #1 pick pretty well, and they picked Kizer at the right spot for what he was. I actually think the Browns handled their draft reasonably well last year. Their mistake was throwing Kizer right into the fire. And yes it was a mistake, because you admit yourself that he should not have been expected to be a plug-and-play quarterback. even while you simultaneously declare Kizer trash for failing to do something you yourself admit shouldn't have been expected of him
 
You sure the Browns are getting rid of Kizer.

2nd round pick heading into year 2. Hes probably a backup if they land a Vet.
I think it probable that the Browns are ditching Kizer. They do it if they draft a quarterback high this year, and want a veteran backup behind him. They move Kizer in that situation for the same reason we moved Jacoby Brissett. Kizer is a project now and the Browns can't afford to carry a project third string quarterback, if they decide they need to take another stab at the starting QB lottery right now, Kizer's surplus goods.
 
I think it probable that the Browns are ditching Kizer. They do it if they draft a quarterback high this year, and want a veteran backup behind him. They move Kizer in that situation for the same reason we moved Jacoby Brissett. Kizer is a project now and the Browns can't afford to carry a project third string quarterback, if they decide they need to take another stab at the starting QB lottery right now, Kizer's surplus goods.

The Browns would have to give a draft pick and Kizer for somebody to take him.

They should land a Vet to start in 18, draft a QB to sit in 18 and have Kizer with 1 season at QB as a backup. The team that Kizer has any worth to at all is the Browns.
 
Nothing against Brother Simpleton, who I believe has added substantially to our community, but nobody was more down than I on DeShone Kizer:

Fanatical Yankee ~ DeShone Kizer Scouting Report

I gave'm a 6th/7th Round "Auxiliary" Grade & Rank...and I was not gentle.
jester.gif


And so far...It's looking like I overrated the poor bastard!! :eek:

Even so, I applaud Brother Simpleton's panache and "off the grid" approach in backing one ~ DeShone Kizer ~ who is very difficult to defend!!
beer.gif


Keep those Ideas coming, boys ~ even the bad ones!!

...Especially the bad ones!! :D
 
Had the previous General Manager been retained, I seriously doubt that Kizer would be going anywhere after just one year. The only GM I've ever heard of with the colossal testicular fortitude that it'd take to dump Pick #52 merely one year after making that Pick is none other than our own Mad Bill...And even he's never done so. o_O

But with a new General Manager with nothing invested in Kizer??
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Yeah. Kizer could definitely get dumped.
 
Kizer = Geno Smith

WGAS?
 
Isn't that rather the Browns' fault than necessarily Kizer's?



They used their #1 pick pretty well, and they picked Kizer at the right spot for what he was. I actually think the Browns handled their draft reasonably well last year. Their mistake was throwing Kizer right into the fire. And yes it was a mistake, because you admit yourself that he should not have been expected to be a plug-and-play quarterback. even while you simultaneously declare Kizer trash for failing to do something you yourself admit shouldn't have been expected of him

The problem is that I don't think Kizer is EVER going to be "ready" to be even an average quarterback in the NFL. Nothing that I've seen of him since him coming onto my radar prior to national signing day a few years ago has changed my mind on that. He forced balls into tight coverage frequently at Notre Dame and lived more off the fact that he could make plays with his feet. His first year in the NFL was a disaster where he doubled the amount of INTs to TDs that he threw. That's on top of the fact that he couldn't even generate at least one W even with halfway decent options in the passing game to work with against a weak schedule. The Browns would have been better off either picking Watson or Mahomes with the first pick and taking a chance on Taco Charlton with their second selection.

Further, this was the OP I was responding to:

I think there's little doubt that Kizer could be useful. He showed some very nice flashes in the 0-16 season, and frequently put the team in position to win only to be let down by the D or the special teams, and at least a handful of his picks are squarely the fault of that weak offensive line

Kizer is not the reason that that team was terrible, and I personally think he's worth working with to see what he could do in a better offensive scheme. If the Browns disagree, the kid might be available for pennies, and if that's the case, I think it would be smart to check it out and see what might be there.

It's the old adage, things are never as bad as they seem when they're at their worst, or as good as their best. Kizer is not exactly what he appears to be at the moment. If the Browns draft a QB high, Kizer represents a buy low opportunity with more than a little talent.

Arm is not bad, he can use his feet, release is actually above average, accuracy isn't bad, it all just comes down to what you think of the head component. And I don't think a rookie campaign with the Browns is going to show that in its best light.

Emphasis on the bolded. Kizer was a DIRECT reason the team was terrible as its quarterback. You're trying to add shades of gray into a debate that is otherwise black and white. Your original assertion was wrong and we have nothing, to date, to suggest that Kizer is capable of turning it around.
 
Very few things are black and white. Reality is a gray place

Fundamental question, why were the Browns terrible. You leap right in with both feet to blaming the quarterback. And in a shallow, overly simplistic sense, you're right, but the problem is it leaves some huge questions unanswered about why the quarterback failed.

I'm convinced the problems were far more fundamental and one of those problems is that the Browns rushed a quarterback onto the field who wasn't ready to go. Kizer failed because he was set up to fail, and the failure is not a major indictment of Kizer's talent because he should never have been put in that position in the first place.

I think he's got a lot more talent than he was able to display in the teamwide gongshow that was the Browns 0-16 season. You disagree because losses, which sounds to me like "I disagree because changing my mind is hard and I don't like looking past the surface of things."
 
I think Kizer with good coaching has as much potential any QB the Pats will have a chance of picking in the 2nd round but why would the Browns not just keep him as a cheap backup?
 
I'd rather sign Nick Foles next year. ;)
 
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