Our Secondary

IllegalContact said:

Last year we had 4 picks and used 2 on OT and 2 DE......

I also believe they move either the 1/31 or 2/11 pick

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In 2017, they made four picks (spent four picks on rookie prospects).

IIRC, the Pats went into draft weekend with 9 picks in hand, after spending one on Gillislee and acquiring Allen via an exchange of picks. They then spent one on Cooks and one on O'Shaughnessy, and three picks were used to move around the board to make the four actual selections they made.

The number of options are more limited this year.

I can't really predict what BB will do with the #31 or the SFO 2nd-rounder. Depends on who falls (or doesn't).

ashley1992 said:

If we get rid of Richards and upgrade our pass rush, our secondary will be so much better!!!

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maineman209 said:

IOW, the Pats manage to acquire an upgrade replacement for Richards.

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That won't be difficult.

captain stone said:

That won't be difficult.

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It's been three years. Hasn't happened yet.

maineman209 said:

I'd say ...
- draft one safety; add another 1-2 UDFAs
- sign one relatively cheap veteran free agent CB and add another 1-2 UDFAs

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I'm OK with taking a flyer on a safety. Maybe belichick will cut on of our special teamers: Richards, Ebner or King. I doubt it.

With regard to corner, I think that we need more that a cheap free agent and some UDFA's. The secondary was our strength. We we say the same of Gilmore-Rowe-Jones, plus two of Bademosi, C Jones and an UDFA or cheap free agent?

I would expect a mid-level free agent (some else's high pick who isn't working out from a couple of year's ago) plus a couple of less expensive ones (perhaps even an UDFA).

mgteich said:

I'm OK with taking a flyer on a safety. Maybe belichick will cut on of our special teamers: Richards, Ebner or King. I doubt it.

With regard to corner, I think that we need more that a cheap free agent and some UDFA's. The secondary was our strength. We we say the same of Gilmore-Rowe-Jones, plus two of Bademosi, C Jones and an UDFA or cheap free agent?

I would expect a mid-level free agent (some else's high pick who isn't working out from a couple of year's ago) plus a couple of less expensive ones (perhaps even an UDFA).

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I'm afraid that it's probably going to require another one of BB's "Second Round Safety Specials" to get a lot of fans to forget about Richards.

Third time's the charm, right?

maineman209 said:

I'm afraid that it's probably going to require another one of BB's "Second Round Safety Specials" to get a lot of fans to forget about Richards.

Third time's the charm, right?

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Richards is one our top STer's, the most important function of our #4 safety. Our #5 plays no safety at all (or shouldn't). I suppose if Ebner was going, Beleichik might use a second rounder. More likely is that there will be moe value for us in top 100 at LB, NT, DE, CB, QB or even TE.

IMHO, Chung was a fine value during his first contract, and also in his second patriot contract.

I suppose it is a matter of perspective. Our top 3 safeties were DRAFTED by the patriots in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round. Their #4S/ST was drafted in the 2nd. I don't think that this unit represents draft poor value.

ashley1992 said:

If we get rid of Richards and upgrade our pass rush, our secondary will be so much better!!!

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It would be a great start. Replacing Richards is easy. Hard to believe there isn't a backup safety out there who can excel on ST and play not horribly when called upon defensively.

But they definitely need another corner. Draft one and sign an FA. I expect next season to be Gilmore/JJones/Rowe and said pick/FA/Cyrus.

Many here think that it is easy to replace Richards with a top STer who won't embarrass himself when playing safety. Belichick is the best evaluator of ST talent in the NFL. He hasn't been able to find an upgrade to Richards. So, I would say that it is NOT easy. I understand that many have their own players who they think fit the requirements. However, Belichick has disagreed.

Folks have been sure that our Practice Squad talent is surely better than Richards and should have been activated to upgrade Richards. Agains, after watching these players every day, belichick disagrees.

Kdo5 said:

It would be a great start. Replacing Richards is easy. Hard to believe there isn't a backup safety out there who can excel on ST and play not horribly when called upon defensively.

But they definitely need another corner. Draft one and sign an FA. I expect next season to be Gilmore/JJones/Rowe and said pick/FA/Cyrus.

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mgteich said:

Many here think that it is easy to replace Richards with a top STer who won't embarrass himself when playing safety. Belichick is the best evaluator of ST talent in the NFL. He hasn't been able to find an upgrade to Richards. So, I would say that it is NOT easy. I understand that many have their own players who they think fit the requirements. However, Belichick has disagreed.

Folks have been sure that our Practice Squad talent is surely better than Richards and should have been activated to upgrade Richards. Agains, after watching these players every day, belichick disagrees.

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The results on the field say that Richards is a major liability on defense. I mostly agree with Belichick's decisions but putting Richards on the field defensively in big games (really any game) is a mistake. Hopefully he has accepted that fact by now.

I just find it difficult to believe Bill can't find a suitable replacement.

maineman209 said:

It's been three years. Hasn't happened yet.

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And for that I blame Bill and the rest of the FO.

mgteich said:

Many here think that it is easy to replace Richards with a top STer who won't embarrass himself when playing safety. Belichick is the best evaluator of ST talent in the NFL...

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Says who? Was there a poll taken of which I am unaware?

Kdo5 said:

The results on the field say that Richards is a major liability on defense. I mostly agree with Belichick's decisions but putting Richards on the field defensively in big games (really any game) is a mistake. Hopefully he has accepted that fact by now.

I just find it difficult to believe Bill can't find a suitable replacement.

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The open question is how to build the roster. Belichick seems to choose to have 8 defensive backs and 3 STO players that are labelled as defensive backs: Ebner, Richards and King.

That leaves with 5 corners and 3 safeties who can actually play defense. The open question is whether this is enough. Obviously the #5 corner usually plays corner if needed (Bademosi).

IMHO, it doesn't do any good to make believe that there are STers out there as good as our Sters, and that those players are also acceptable as defensive players. Belichick will look yet agains for such players, and some will be signed. Some, like Bademosi, might even stick.
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IMHO, we need to have 7-8 active defensive backs that can play defense, 3 corners, 3 safeties, and 1-2 players who can step in when someone is injured. 6 players should get almost the reps, absent injuries.

I suspect that some of the problem comes from the fact that our linebackers can cover.

captain stone said:

That won't be difficult.

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I’m rooting for a mannequin to replace him. Might tackle better

If you put any value in the Pro Football Focus grading system..

Butler grades out as 79.2 which comes out to be the 51st best corner in the NFL, an average rating by PFF
Rowe grades out as 50.7 which comes out to be the 96th best corner in the NFL. a poor rating by PFF

Can he be coached up?? Not sure. It will be interesting when Butler hits the FA market, as if there were any shenanigans associated with his SB benching it may show up there.. people who need to know about why he was benched will know the details.

To make an analogy between our CBs and building a pitching staff. I feel like we have a #1 starter (Gilmore) and a couple of #4 (Rowe, J. Jones) starters that maybe could be #2/3 starters. Then we have Cyrus Jones and practice squad players who are training camp competition. I would say that adding a CB in the draft that we feel can be a starter (#1 or #2 corner) would make everything else fall into place nicely.

The ship has sailed on keeping Butler.

As regards safety. We have a veteran group. You can read that as "older". McCourty, Chung, and Harmon are solid. I won't pile on Richards, but hope that the team views him as ST-only like Ebner and no longer views him as an option to take defensive snaps. Adding youth through either the draft or free agency. It says something where adding a player with at least 4 accrued seasons in the league would make your group younger.

I feel like we have too many ST-only safeties (King, Ebner, Richards), though King may count as a ST-only linebacker. When you only have 3 safeties on the roster that won't embarrass you on the field its time to commit more of the roster to people who can play defense and use more of your starters on the ST units.

Chung, Butler, and Gilmore are the only ones in that secondary that are worth keeping. Butler will never resign with the Pat's and who could blame him. I think BB public humiliation of Butler is going to turn off a lot of potential FA. It was a colossal mistake of hubris on his part.

For years everyone has been singing praise on McCourty and all I see is the most overpaid guy in the NFL. He was once again invisible this year and especially in the playoffs. Maybe they could trade him for a bag of magic beans or just release him and create some cap room. Harmon is almost as bad, but he just resigned so their is no benefit from cutting him at this point.

Remember the days of Rodney Harrison? I would love to see the Pats find a safety that can actually make plays!

I guess we can still hold out hope that Cyrus Jones somehow wakes up from the coma he has been in for the last three years and remembers how to play.

The Pat's defense needs upgrades at more positions than they have high draft picks for. They just got picked apart by a back up QB who was so bad he considered retirement, running a playgroundesque offense. They made Blake Bortles look like an all pro, Brady is the only reason these guys have any succes.

They need at least 2 linebackers, a playmaking safety, and a new starting corner, and oh the same thing we have been saying for 18 years now, someone who can rush the passer (so BB can trade him away for a bag of magic beans like he did Chandler Jones).

mgteich said:

Richards is one our top STer's, the most important function of our #4 safety. Our #5 plays no safety at all (or shouldn't). I suppose if Ebner was going, Beleichik might use a second rounder. More likely is that there will be moe value for us in top 100 at LB, NT, DE, CB, QB or even TE.

IMHO, Chung was a fine value during his first contract, and also in his second patriot contract.

I suppose it is a matter of perspective. Our top 3 safeties were DRAFTED by the patriots in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round. Their #4S/ST was drafted in the 2nd. I don't think that this unit represents draft poor value.

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I was trying to be funny, there. But then, I'm widely know as "The Second Round Draft Pick of Comedians", so ...

Seriously, though, the thing for me is that - if the 3-safety, Big Nickel is going to be more frequently used - perhaps even more than the 3-corner nickel, eventually - then it makes sense to me for the #4 safety to be pretty good. So, attempting to acquire a very good developmental prospect with a relatively high draft pick seems reasonable - and especially timely with both McCourty and Chung turning 31 in Camp this year.

Kdo5 said:

Replacing Richards is easy.

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Finding another guy who can play coverage as a mid-field "robber" and man-up on whoever is in the slot, shadow/spy on a mobile QB, stop the run up the middle and play edge-contain as the second LB in x-2-5 alignments - often shifting from one role to the next in the same game and playing multiple snaps of each?

Sure! Piece of cake! There's a gazillion guys who can do that better than Richards. Which is why Richards was replaced so quickly.

Oh. Wait.

Kdo5 said:

The results on the field say that Richards is a major liability on defense. I mostly agree with Belichick's decisions but putting Richards on the field defensively in big games (really any game) is a mistake. Hopefully he has accepted that fact by now.

I just find it difficult to believe Bill can't find a suitable replacement.

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Then you haven't been paying attention to the demands that the Pats coverage schemes place on safeties and are unaware of how low the success rate is for drafted safeties.