Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

SVN said:

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Can't wait for someone to blame BB for this when rushing M. Flowers has MPs hand writing all over it.

Mack Herron said:

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Yeah not seeing what scheme would dictate using LESS corners and more safeties in a dime package. Especially if one of those safeties cannot cover or tackle for ****.

aluminum seats said:

Unless you're someone who's never met a human being before, these are not difficult deductions to make.

The whole tenor of the conversation here has been bizarre. It truly is cult like… You're all waiting for some mysterious piece of information to emerge, when the reality is there is no justifiable explanation for benching Butler the entire game.

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Like some on this board, I'm just not into coming to lazy conclusions.

To say the team was in a bad emotional state and that is the main reason they lost is ridiculous. Its speculative.

I have no doubt Milloy being let go rocked the locker room and the team took the field a bit shaken but to not look at how screwed up the communication in the secondary was with new players (3 of them) and Milloy knowing the Patriots calls is more likely the real reason they lost.

Like this example, I have no doubt players looked at Malcolm and were like, "WTF" . For the past week I've stayed mainly out of the schematic/matchup reasons why they lost because we don't know for a fact they lost because Malcolm sat but we do know the original game plan, personnel and adjustments were not successful. Blame the players. Blame the coaches. Blame BB. I'm fine with all of that.

I've been thinking more about this.

I see two cases.

Case 1. There is in fact a perfectly logical explanation for not playing Butler. Nobody outside Patricia and Belichick know what that explanation actually is, but it exists.

Case 2. The decision not to play Butler was in fact strategically incorrect AND it was made for illogical reasons, such as:
i. Behavior-based cues - Butler seemed different in practice, or talked back, etc.
ii. Not thinking through the effect on team chemistry and communication of sitting out Butler.
iii. Discipline.
iv. Wanted to surprise Philly.

If Case 2 applies, it's going to be next to impossible to recover from this. It will in fact go down as not only the worst mistake in Super Bowl history, but the most heartless. Like the interrogation of Buttle, "oops, our bad." Poignant since arguably Butler's whole career was sabotaged at the outset by a similar mistake (on his 40 time).

If case 2 applies, and is known to apply, it just isn't going to be possible to restore the trust and dedication the Patriots had counted on in past years. Slowly but surely, despacito, the Patriots become the Steelers.

If case 1 applies, then the situation is surprising but not such a big deal. On to 2018. However, if case 1 applies and some players believe case 2 applies, then again a big challenge.

Conclusion: I personally see no way out of this pickle.

Chris Stevenson said:

probably. and then a bunch of insecure board bullies, whose lives revolve around this very board, will swoop in and tell everyone what to think since they have “been here longer”.

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This post is dripping with lack of self-awareness. Nearly everything you write is self-congratulatory of a massive football acumen that you frankly have not demonstrated. You're very condescending, especially towards those pesky millennials which, to your credit, you haven't managed to wedge in a mention about in this thread. You mock people who post a lot here, and yet in the five weeks you've been on this board you've averaged over 30 posts per day. I'm sorry a millennial stole your girl or your promotion, but it might be time to stop barking at everyone else and take a look at what you're putting out here.

K. Dog said:

I've been thinking more about this.

I see two cases.

Case 1. There is in fact a perfectly logical explanation for not playing Butler. Nobody outside Patricia and Belichick know what that explanation actually is, but it exists.

Case 2. The decision not to play Butler was in fact strategically incorrect AND it was made for illogical reasons, such as:
i. Behavior-based cues - Butler seemed different in practice, or talked back, etc.
ii. Not thinking through the effect on team chemistry and communication of sitting out Butler.
iii. Discipline.
iv. Wanted to surprise Philly.

If Case 2 applies, it's going to be next to impossible to recover from this. It will in fact go down as not only the worst mistake in Super Bowl history, but the most heartless. Like the interrogation of Buttle, "oops, our bad." Poignant since arguably Butler's whole career was sabotaged at the outset by a similar mistake (on his 40 time).

If case 2 applies, and is known to apply, it just isn't going to be possible to restore the trust and dedication the Patriots had counted on in past years. Slowly but surely, despacito, the Patriots become the Steelers.

If case 1 applies, then the situation is surprising but not such a big deal. On to 2018. However, if case 1 applies and some players believe case 2 applies, then again a big challenge.

Conclusion: I personally see no way out of this pickle.

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It's already a big blunder in super bowl history. Listen you wanna sit him down then fine but you can bring him in at any given series and he didn't! Also the fact that they never did anything like blitz.

PatriotsNumero1Fan said:

It's already a big blunder in super bowl history. Listen you wanna sit him down then fine but you can bring him in at any given series and he didn't! Also the fact that they never did anything like blitz.

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You might be right, but you might be wrong. We just don't know all the facts.

One thing we do know and that I think nearly anyone can agree on: this was a year unlike any other in the Belichick-Brady era. From the high-priced off-season signings, to the earthquake comments, to the Brady documentary, to the McDaniels drama, to the Garoppolo trade, to the Blount trade and reunion, and finally to the Butler benching.

aluminum seats said:

It truly is cult like… You're all waiting for some mysterious piece of information to emerge

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I am desperately hoping/waiting for some mysterious piece of information to emerge.

K. Dog said:

You might be right, but you might be wrong. We just don't know all the facts.

One thing we do know and that I think nearly anyone can agree on: this was a year unlike any other in the Belichick-Brady era. From the high-priced off-season signings, to the earthquake comments, to the Brady documentary, to the McDaniels drama, to the Garoppolo trade, to the Blount trade and reunion, and finally to the Butler benching.

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Nothing's working and he decides to just sit him. Butler's capable of making a big play at any moment. You don't think butler on agholor would have helped? All they needed was a couple of stops in the second half. It's an asinine move. Rowe over butler as the second corner's not a smart move.

Mack Herron said:

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We might never get a good response from BB.

luuked said:

That is not my point.

My point was that we got them into third and favorable often enough to produce stops. They were not sitting at third & 1/2 all day. 8 out of 18 3rd down were longer than 3rd & 6 (10 if you want to set the line at 3rd & 4). Only 2 of those were stopped. That was the game. Nobody is saying they played well on first and second down but at least they put themselves often enough in a situation to stop a drive and yet fell spectacularly short of it almost every time.

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But, then, your point is a non-point, since you couldn't possibly have expected the Eagles to never have longer than 3rd and 3.

luuked said:

@Deus Irae is there any good point to Bedard pointing fingers at M. Flowers and his use in his new article for BSJ ? Don't have a subscription but am curious if this would necessitate another rewatch with focusing on Flowers.

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I haven't seen Bedard's article, since I never signed up for the site. So, I really can't tell you what he's thinking, sorry.

Hercules Rockefeller said:

This post is dripping with lack of self-awareness. Nearly everything you write is self-congratulatory of a massive football acumen that you frankly have not demonstrated. You're very condescending, especially towards those pesky millennials which, to your credit, you haven't managed to wedge in a mention about in this thread. You mock people who post a lot here, and yet in the five weeks you've been on this board you've averaged over 30 posts per day. I'm sorry a millennial stole your girl or your promotion, but it might be time to stop barking at everyone else and take a look at what you're putting out here.

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I simply don't care what your opinion is. Look! Another post to count (as if it means anything).

PatriotsNumero1Fan said:

It's already a big blunder in super bowl history. Listen you wanna sit him down then fine but you can bring him in at any given series and he didn't! Also the fact that they never did anything like blitz.

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They probably should have sat him down on the bench in the Jax game.

The whole mess is truely unfortunate. I look at those stats and wonder. Do they complete 14-17 against butler? Doubtful

This is one of those things where the front 7 players were so often out of position from biting on rudimentary fakes, and blew so many tackles right in front of them, that it's hard to evaluate anything else about the plan. If you can't execute the basics of your position the plan is largely irrelevant. I'm a skeptic of both the overall plan and the benching of Butler specifically, but if the front 7 could execute on the most basic level at any point in the game the Patriots win walking away. But of course they couldn't.

This isn't even a defense of the coaching, since you have to ask how they got clowned on so many basic plays after 2 weeks of studying the opponent, and you have to ask how the coaches couldn't get their front 7 to harden the *beep* up after 2 weeks to drill things like tackling and gap integrity into their skulls. For every genuinely "tricky" play the Eagles ran, they ran 20 simple play fakes that a high school kid would recognize.

Chris Stevenson said:

They probably should have sat him down on the bench in the Jax game.

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They would have lost then. He played very well in the second half.

We’re not ever going to know.

The reason I think there’s something important we don’t know is because of this.

They refused to adjust and use butler. This makes no sense with the info we have. Now, this idea that the game plan was set and the players used were the best idea to win stuff refused to balance in my mind. If there is no info out there then I have to feel the game was intentionally thrown. That does not compute at all

Soliel said:

stuff refused to balance in my mind

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what now?

mosslost said:

what now?

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Nothing new really. Just wanted to explain why I think there’s a missing exponent.

Any time stuffs not working they change it over and over till something works better. Butler not being used or even tried screams