Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

Ring 6 · Feb 8, 2018

PatsDeb said:
Why do you and Robertweathers keep equating the argument that BB is at fault for benching a starter, watching his D tank, and doing nothing about it with "Malcolm did no wrong"? Nobody here has said that Malcolm did no wrong. He obviously did something to get benched for the Super Bowl. However, he was still ready, willing and able, during all 60 minutes of that game, to go in and try to help the team win, just as he had during every game before that during the season.

Because you keep saying belichick should have played him. Right here you talk like it’s the same as any other game.
I think it’s comical that you seriously believe belichick would whimsically drop a guy from every snap to no snaps in the Sb with out a really, really, really good reason.
It’s like you main premise is Belichick doesn’t care about winning.
Belichick made a very difficult decision and I trust he had a very good reason even though I do not know exactly what it was because absent a very good reason he wouldn’t have done it. He has never done it before.

BB had what we call in the legal world "the last clear chance" to avoid the train wreck and he refused to even try it.

Why would you think that if belichick decided for a very good reason butler wasn’t going to play rhythm during the game he would then say it’s a good idea for him to play? That makes no sense.

Your argument that we don't know what BIG thing happened, and therefore the rest of us are wrong and you are right, is so stupid it's maddening given the outcome of the game.

Because it is total ignorant and stupid to assume he didn’t have a very good reason.
Your argument is belichick felt butker was the best guy to put on the field all season and then did no reason wasn’t. How can you possibly have such little respect for or faith in belichick after watching what he has done for 18 years?
I

His anger/loss of trust/ego (either in sticking to his horrible game plan or in sticking with sticking it to Butler, or both)/whatever you BB-can-do-no-wrong-ists want to fill in here eclipsed his usual clear thinking that usually leads us to a win. In the biggest game of the year, that he preaches is the only one that matters. That's the sad fact.

So your conclusion is that belichick after 18 years here and 42 in the nfl just for one day acted like someone else?
Do you see how obtuse that is?

I'm done now, so please don't break down my response into little pieces and analyze each word to say I said something I didn't say, or ask me a question that I wasn't writing about. That's another maddening habit that you and Robertweathers have. I prefer Quantum's little red Xs. Short and to the point.

Then don’t post responses if you don’t want your comments to be held to any scrutiny.

You, for someone who is normally pretty open minded have for some reason decided that you are going to make up your own story, cover your eyes and ears and sit in the corner and stomp your feet.
I guess sore loser is a thing.

RobertWeathers · Feb 8, 2018

Ivan said:
This is a big part of the problem, Butler believed he was entitled to play, and when they told him he wouldn’t start he should have doubled and tripled down on showing them he should be out there as much as possible, imo he did the opposite and that led to him getting benched completely.

I am convinced Malcolm had a 'tude going.

SHOWTIME15 · Feb 8, 2018

“Players win games, coaches lose them.”

-Bill Belichick

Ivan · Feb 8, 2018

robertweathers said:
I am convinced Malcolm had a 'tude going.

And I think it got worse and worse and worse. Imo he could have turned it around and instead went the other way.

Ivan · Feb 8, 2018

TommyBrady12 said:
“Players win games, coaches lose them.”

-Bill Belichick

The loss in the Super Bowl “ was on me.”

-Bill Belichick

I haven’t seen Malcolm Butler take any responsibility at all, have you?

SHOWTIME15 · Feb 8, 2018

robertweathers said:
I am convinced Malcolm had a 'tude going.

I think the whole sickness thing was just a cover for something else that happened like Malcolm missing the flight.

Ivan · Feb 8, 2018

TommyBrady12 said:
I think the whole sickness thing was just a cover for something else that happened like Malcolm missing the flight.

Someday it will all come out.

Belichick will stay silent but the Kraft’s will leak it out.

RobertWeathers · Feb 8, 2018

Ivan said:
And I think it got worse and worse and worse. Imo he could have turned it around and instead went the other way.

...and BB had enough.

Malcolm's behavior, statements, actions, whatever made it impossible for BB to trust him out there to do his job.

Ivan · Feb 8, 2018

robertweathers said:
...and BB had enough.

Malcolm's behavior, statements, actions, whatever made it impossible for BB to trust him out there to do his job.

That’s how I se it as well.

RobertWeathers · Feb 8, 2018

TommyBrady12 said:
I think the whole sickness thing was just a cover for something else that happened like Malcolm missing the flight.

Maybe. I think Howe said during a practice he physically looked drained. Could have been the flu. Could be hungover. Could be from a bad nights sleep. Don't know.

I dunna know. At this point I'm still buying that he had the flu.

PatsDeb · Feb 8, 2018

robertweathers said:
1/2 the board is saying Malcolm did nothing wrong. They are taking what he said as gospel but when BB says it was a football decision you refuse to believe what he said is gospel. Why does Malcolm have more credibility than BB?

Why are people refusing to accept that maybe, just maybe Malcolm was A) not ready to play the game and B) couldn't have helped anyway?

How do you know Malcolm was ready to play? He was crying on the sidelines because he was told he was not playing a lot/starting. If you were a coach would YOU put that player in?

Its funny how you ramble on and blame BB but when you receive rebuttals and counterpoints you complain. This is a fan board y'know....

Where? Where did anyone actually say "Malcolm did nothing wrong"? What does any of this have to do with credibility anyway? We're talking about the decisions that were made, not who said what afterwards. I don't care if it was a vendetta or a football decision that led to the benching, and then the stubborn refusal to play the player when things were failing miserably right before your eyes. We refuse to accept that Malcolm wasn't ready to play and couldn't have helped anyway because the entire body of work of this team, this year, shows those assumptions to be false. So what if he was crying for a few minutes? He wasn't crying in the 2nd half and he couldn't have done any worse than what was put out there, again, based on the entire body of work, of this team, this year. I absolutely would have put him in and tried to win the game. I am still shocked and will never understand why BB didn't do so, whatever his motivations were at the beginning of the game. That is not how that man usually operates. If things aren't working he usually changes them up. He's not some first year coach that can't deviate from the game plan because he's out of ideas and in over his head. You are obviously okay with what he did, and the outcome of the Super Bowl. I and many other people are not.

Cutting peoples' responses into little pieces and making assumptions yourselves (he wasn't ready, he couldn't help at all) that fly in the face of everything we actually DO know (that he played 98% of the defensive snaps for this Super Bowl caliber team prior to the Super Bowl over a 16 game span) deserve a complaint. And yes, I do know it's a fan board.

PittPatriot · Feb 8, 2018

robertweathers said:
Ok so kill BB based on optics and a divisive act? That's silly.

The fact that none of you are giving BB the benefit of the doubt is garbage.

Malcolm did something (s) to warrant his benching. Period.

When has BB ever woken up one day and arbitrarily decide to bench his 2nd best CB for no good reason?

I'm not going to dismiss 17 years of elite coaching and believe all the sudden he lost his mind.

Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.

RW -
I am giving BB some benefit of the doubt. I accept that the game plan could have been to go big nickel and leave Bulter out because "it was best for the scheme" and nothing personal.
But- 30 minutes of Philly having their way with us should have prompted MP or BB or make SOME change. And yes, Butler is up there with Harmon in terms of aggressive tackling.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing, does it? I love my parents but I sometimes disagree with them...doesn't mean I want new parents or am ready to move into the neighbors house (I'm on the wrong side of 40 so that would be really weird).

Another aside: How much do I respect Butler's tackling? I think he made the 2 biggest plays to get us the #1 seed:
1. I think Tampa goes down and scores unless Butler rips down Desean Jackson and knocks him out of the game on that final drive.
2. I think the NYJ could have upset us if it weren't for Butler stripping Austin Sefaris-Jenkins at the pylon.

mb6592 · Feb 8, 2018

PatsDeb said:
Where? Where did anyone actually say "Malcolm did nothing wrong"? What does any of this have to do with credibility anyway? We're talking about the decisions that were made, not who said what afterwards. I don't care if it was a vendetta or a football decision that led to the benching, and then the stubborn refusal to play the player when things were failing miserably right before your eyes. We refuse to accept that Malcolm wasn't ready to play and couldn't have helped anyway because the entire body of work of this team, this year, shows those assumptions to be false. So what if he was crying for a few minutes? He wasn't crying in the 2nd half and he couldn't have done any worse that what was put out there, again, based on the entire body of work, of this team, this year. I absolutely would have put him in and tried to win the game. I am still shocked and will never understand why BB didn't do so, whatever his motivations were at the beginning of the game. That is not how that man usually operates. If things aren't working he usually changes them up. He's not some first year coach that can't deviate from the game plan because he's out of ideas and in over his head. You are obviously okay with what he did, and the outcome of the Super Bowl. I and many other people are not.

Cutting peoples' responses into little pieces and making assumptions yourselves (he wasn't ready, he couldn't help at all) that fly in the face of everything we actually DO know (that he played 98% of the defensive snaps for this Super Bowl caliber team prior to the Super Bowl over a 16 game span) deserve a complaint. And yes, I do know it's a fan board.

Of course you're right. All the big nickel, crying, bad practice smokescreen is just that. As I said before, this really isn't complicated. The fact is both Belichick and Butler say it wasn't related to disciplinary reason(s). The obvious is Belichick decided, for reason(s) unrelated to winning the Super Bowl, to bench Butler. The probable is it cost us a win.

There is no way that BB lets Philly lay 41 on us w/o inserting Butler if this had all been scheme related (i.e. with the sole purpose being to win the Super Bowl). Something happened to piss BB off enough to significantly hamper this defense and significantly hamper the Patriots chance of winning this game. By significant I put it at at least 5% better chance of the Pats winning this game with Butler playing.

RobertWeathers · Feb 8, 2018

PittPatriot said:
It doesn't have to be all or nothing, does it?

I ripped everything out of your thoughtful post except this (which is equally thoughtful) because it gets to the heart of the discussion.

If we want to selectively believe the reports that Malcolm was not going to play 100% of the snaps because of matchups, scheme, etc but a handful of packages (like he did vs KC). That signifies BB was willing to play Malcolm during the game.

But something happened which rocked BB to the core and in his estimation violated a rule, standard, expectation, etc enough that it was impossible for him to trust Malcolm to do his job out there.

Its clear to me BBs standard is he would rather have players out there who he trusts to follow the game plan and do what coaches expect them to do but have lesser talent than a player more talented who is a risk of going rogue and/or cannot trust.

Ivan · Feb 8, 2018

mb6592 said:
Of course you're right. All the big nickel, crying, bad practice smokescreen is just that. As I said before, this really isn't complicated. The fact is both Belichick and Butler say it wasn't related to disciplinary reason(s). The obvious is Belichick decided, for reason(s) unrelated to winning the Super Bowl, to bench Butler. The probable is it cost us a win.

There is no way that BB lets Philly lay 41 on us w/o inserting Butler if this had all been scheme related (i.e. with the sole purpose being to win the Super Bowl). Something happened to piss BB off enough to significantly hamper this defense and significantly hamper the Patriots chance of winning this game. By significant I put it at at least
5% better chance of the Pats winning this game with Butler playing.

The KC offense that Pedserson used to coordinate put up the same points in the opener with Butler on the field

Ring 6 · Feb 8, 2018

robertweathers said:
...and BB had enough.

Malcolm's behavior, statements, actions, whatever made it impossible for BB to trust him out there to do his job.

I mean what other reason could there be?
Whatever happened with Malcom butler between the afccg and Sb Sunday led the greatest coach our time, maybe all time to choose not to play a guy who played every snap since 11/18 and 98% of them all year.
How can anyone think butler didn’t do something to cause that?

IllegalContact · Feb 8, 2018

Ivan said:
The loss in the Super Bowl “ was on me.”

-Bill Belichick

I haven’t seen Malcolm Butler take any responsibility at all, have you?

why should he? it wasn't his fault......BB just said so

IllegalContact · Feb 8, 2018

robertweathers said:
I am convinced Malcolm had a 'tude going.

and I am convinced that BB made a mistake by not playing him

so there.......we're even

mb6592 · Feb 8, 2018

Ivan said:
The KC offense that Pedserson used to coordinate put up the same points in the opener with Butler on the field

This is why your point is irrelevant:

AndyJohnson said:
I mean what other reason could there be?
Whatever happened with Malcom butler between the afccg and Sb Sunday led the greatest coach our time, maybe all time to choose not to play a guy who played every snap since 11/18 and 98% of them all year.
How can anyone think butler didn’t do something to cause that?

makoute · Feb 8, 2018

AndyJohnson said:
I mean what other reason could there be?
Whatever happened with Malcom butler between the afccg and Sb Sunday led the greatest coach our time, maybe all time to choose not to play a guy who played every snap since 11/18 and 98% of them all year.
How can anyone think butler didn’t do something to cause that?

So now it is okay to speculate. Disregard what the two coaches said, disregard what the player said. Because simply speaking Bill is not capable of making a bad decision. So assasinate was he kid’s character even when they guy you are defending said otherwise.

Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

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