Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

robertweathers said:

There is no fantasy. What vendetta? What example?

We have 18 years of examples where BB has pissed off the locker room and it had zero impact on winning

Click to expand...

sure there is........any opinion on the matter including yours and mine is fantasy because we don't have the facts.....


people need to stop acting like they're somehow closer to the truth

robertweathers said:

Yes you do. You wanted BB to play Malcolm no matter what he was or wasn't doing. Just admit that and we can move on.



Sure if you actually believe his response.



Sure and leave the team with 2 CBs? I'm willing to assume once they told malcolm he wasn't going to start he freaked. They expected him to handle it like a professional. Boy were they wrong.



Multiple players knew days in advance Malcolm's role would be reduced and they prepared for it. If you want to sat BB didn't prepare them well then that is fine.



Sure if you want to base it on speculation. Saying the D would have been better with a ****ed in the head Malcolm out there is speculative.

Click to expand...

Right on the money.

patsfan13 said:

No I don't discount Butler 'screwing up' at all.

I do think BB response was totally F'd up given the fact of how he weakened the entire secondary with his benching of Butler leading to the horrible result Sunday.

Either remove him from the game day roster and let the team know in advance or play him to at least try to win the game, then let him go elsewhere if you don't want the guy on the team.

Putting Chung, Rowe and McCourty out of position and putting in Badamosi and Richards in for critical snaps in the biggest game of the year was just STUPID on BB's part.

You can't argue with RESULTS.

Click to expand...

I don't understand why people want to argue with this. He's right. You can't argue with the result of Belichick's choice

IllegalContact said:

sure there is........any opinion on the matter including yours and mine is fantasy because we don't have the facts.....

people need to stop acting like they're somehow closer to the truth

Click to expand...

If the "If we played Malcolm we would have won and BB is an idiot" crowd wants to do that then great.

robertweathers said:

If the "If we played Malcolm we would have won and BB is an idiot" crowd wants to do that then great.

Click to expand...

it is literally no different from what you are doing....which is to take a baseless stand

that's what I'm doing, too......but it's no more or less accurate either way

robertweathers said:

The lack of information is maddening.

I think BB has an ego and certainly a level of arrogance but I don't believe for one second those two things got in the way of his decision. There were a multitude of factors.

Its like the last episode of The Sopranos. What happened? Is that it?

Click to expand...

I guess that is why I enjoy BB as head coach. I absolutely loved the ending to the Sopranos. I enjoyed the show and that is enough for me. With the Patriots, I enjoy the season and hope for a SB win, but really for me it is an enjoyable ride win or lose.

Soul_Survivor88 said:

I don't understand why people want to argue with this. He's right. You can't argue with the result of Belichick's choice

Click to expand...

Please explain how a ****ed in the head Malcolm helps the team out on the field.

If we are going to assume it is performance based then fine. But Bill still made a tremendous mistake by watching the train wreck and not giving Butler a chance in the second half when nothing more could go wrong with the original plan. The players in the secondary were given unfavorable assignments in Butler's absence which was a nightmare.

I could maybe understand just a bit if he changed course, removing Bademosi and getting Butler playing time along with Gilmore and Rowe. But he didn't! It was just way too stubborn and costly. That is why he deserves blame.

Butler may not have made the difference but how can one argue it wasn't worth a try?

Jordan Richards though. That Belichick didn't make some kind of personnel move is an indictment on him. There has to be an improvement out there for this trash player.

robertweathers said:

Bolded is what justifies the benching. Case closed.

For the "play him anyway" crowd this is where you either have confidence BB is running the club the right way and deserves the benefit of the doubt or you don't.

Click to expand...

He's not infallible. Great people make mistakes. This was a disaster of a decision. There was no need to keep Butler out once it became clear the Pats D couldn't make a stop. He dressed him. So whatever happened could not have been that bad, or else he would've been deactivated.

If Belichick's intention was to not have him play a single snap, he should not have been dressed. Once he was put in a uni and allowed to put on his helmet, the decision should've been to insert him and make the proper adjustments.

Belichick had a personal motive, and he allowed that to get in the way of his judgement.

robertweathers said:

Please explain how a ****ed in the head Malcolm helps the team out on the field.

Click to expand...

What makes you think Malcolm was "f'ed up in the head?"

DropKickFlutie said:

AndyJohnson and Robert Weathers don't base anything on logic here but rather religiously defend a position no matter the facts.

Fact is the run defense was going to suffer when you make your elite in the box SS not play his strengths and have to play slot corner all game

Click to expand...

Do you even understand what big nickel is?
Your argument is we couldn’t stop the run because we didn’t use a smaller pass defending lineup?
Do you realize we played big nickel about 60% of the snaps this year?
Do you realize that what chung she is what chung always does in big nickel?
Do you realize philly played 2 TE almost as much as they played 3 wr?

Those are facts. Yours is misunderstanding.

robertweathers said:

Please explain how a ****ed in the head Malcolm helps the team out on the field.

Click to expand...

first explain the basis of your claim '****ed in the head Malcolm'

Soul_Survivor88 said:

He's not infallible. Great people make mistakes. This was a disaster of a decision. There was no need to keep Butler out once it became clear the Pats D couldn't make a stop. He dressed him. So whatever happened could not have been that bad, or else he would've been deactivated.

If Belichick's intention was to not have him play a single snap, he should not have been dressed. Once he was put in a uni and allowed to put on his helmet, the decision should've been to insert him and make the proper adjustments.

Belichick had a personal motive, and he allowed that to get in the way of his judgement.

Click to expand...

If Butler plays the 2nd half he would be the most motivated player possible.

Pats defense stunk up the place in the 1st half. If Butler goes in and things turn around he is getting paid in the offseason.

Soul_Survivor88 said:

He's not infallible. Great people make mistakes. This was a disaster of a decision. There was no need to keep Butler out once it became clear the Pats D couldn't make a stop. He dressed him. So whatever happened could not have been that bad, or else he would've been deactivated.

If Belichick's intention was to not have him play a single snap, he should not have been dressed. Once he was put in a uni and allowed to put on his helmet, the decision should've been to insert him and make the proper adjustments.

Belichick had a personal motive, and he allowed that to get in the way of his judgement.

Click to expand...

So belichick shouldn’t have dressed ted Karras? The intention was for him not to pkay any snaps too.

Please explain how you determine that Bill Belichick decided to hurt his team over a “personal motive” and what could possibly be more important to him than winning but yuy refuse to accept butler is at fault in any way?

Soul_Survivor88 said:

What makes you think Malcolm was "f'ed up in the head?"

Click to expand...

What makes you think belichick was?

After all we know afte all these years are you seriously putting your money on belichick didn’t care about winning over Malcolm had a meltdown?
Seriously? The guy was crying at the national anthem.

Soul_Survivor88 said:

He's not infallible. Great people make mistakes. This was a disaster of a decision. There was no need to keep Butler out once it became clear the Pats D couldn't make a stop. He dressed him. So whatever happened could not have been that bad, or else he would've been deactivated.

Click to expand...

BB has screwed up before and will again.

You have resigned yourself to believe Malcolm was in a solid frame of mind and BB's football judgement in the biggest game of the year deserves to be questioned when you have zero facts.

Based on your approach to look for people to blame, we can now hang TB12 by his toes because he fumbled. He cost the team the game.

Soul_Survivor88 said:

If Belichick's intention was to not have him play a single snap, he should not have been dressed. Once he was put in a uni and allowed to put on his helmet, the decision should've been to insert him and make the proper adjustments.

Click to expand...

The only way it makes sense is if they told Malcolm he wasn't starting and he freaked out and was in a bad emotional state. Is that who you want out there in the Super Bowl? A ****ed in the head player?

Soul_Survivor88 said:

Belichick had a personal motive, and he allowed that to get in the way of his judgement.

Click to expand...

Gimme a break.

Soul_Survivor88 said:

What makes you think Malcolm was "f'ed up in the head?"

Click to expand...

Crying on the sidelines makes me suspicious. If we believe he was crying because he was told he was not going to start then that tells me his maturity, decision making and professionalism are to be questioned.

Since you are questioning BBs maturity, decision-making and professionalism its only fair, right?

AndyJohnson said:

What makes you think belichick was?

After all we know afte all these years are you seriously putting your money on belichick didn’t care about winning over Malcolm had a meltdown?
Seriously? The guy was crying at the national anthem.

Click to expand...

You are not privy to any inside information. You are not in a position to speculate. All we can do is look at the facts.

Belichick made a concious decision to leave Butler off the inactive list, and yet chose to keep him from playing a single snap where he could've done the most good for the team. There is no reason to have dressed him and keep him from playing, especially when it became clear to everyone that the scheme and personnel was inadequate to keep the Eagles from scoring. There is no rationale for making that kind of decision.

If anything Butler did was unacceptable, then he should have been made inactive. Once he was dressed and capable of playing, Belichick should've "done his job" and do what a coach should've done in that position: put the best players on the field to win the game.

IllegalContact said:

first explain the basis of your claim '****ed in the head Malcolm'

Click to expand...

#3334

robertweathers said:

Crying on the sidelines makes me suspicious. If we believe he was crying because he was told he was not going to start then that tells me his maturity, decision making and professionalism are to be questioned.

Since you are questioning BBs maturity, decision-making and professionalism its only fair, right?

Click to expand...

Then why would Belichick play him in the playoffs against the Titans and Jags.

Stop creating strawmen. Butler made it clear he did nothing ridiculous during Super Bowl week, and his teammates stood by him. Sure, there may have been "minor infractions." And yet, he might have had a bad week of practice. But you are targetting Butler's character in order to absolve Belichick of any wrongdoing. The fact is, he was dressed for the game. Anything he did to lose Belichick's trust, could not have been severe enough to keep him out of the game.

I'll grant you, there could have been some performance-related issue, especially with a bad week of practice. But what did Belichick have to gain by keeping him off the field for all four quarters? Does this make any football sense to you?