Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

SalemPats · Feb 5, 2018

Chris Stevenson said:
Yes, philly’s offense was just as bad and got a free td. Did you?

I'm pissed that we lost and in a bad mood. Don't be a f'ing idiot

PatsFanInVa · Feb 5, 2018

Chris Stevenson said:
Laughable. He is constantly challenged by his underlings as shown in the documentaries and by all that have worked with him.

Are you mazz or felger?

How is this absolute power? Butler screwed up royally.

Okay this is the other side of the head scratcher... explaining it by unknown actions by Butler.

I know not knowing is painful. Somebody will write a memoire one day & we'll have a good laugh down memory lane saying "Oh that's what was going on!"

Right now they keep it in house, I mean unless I missed too much news today. It's all speculation right? Not riding you, seriously asking whether I'm behind the curve. Full time job and all.

Kdo5 · Feb 5, 2018

Chris Stevenson said:
Philly’s d was worse. They folded like a cheap suit and allowed the pats to go ahead, not to mention that clement td was not a td.

Philly's D got their doors blown out by Brady. But one defense gave up 41, the other 33. One defense made a clutch play when it was needed. And that team was the Eagles. Our defense was the worse unit which is saying something.

fumbrunner · Feb 5, 2018

Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Nelson Agholor slips away from Johnson Bademosi to convert on third down

This was THE critical play of the game. Deep in their own end, the Pats stop the Eagles here, get the ball back and based on how the Pats were moving it on offense, take the lead.

Watch Bademosi off the line. Slow to react, poor tackle. Butler would have easily made the tackle.

Satchboogie3 · Feb 5, 2018

Chris Stevenson said:
Yes, philly’s offense was just as bad and got a free td. Did you?

Just as Bad? NE had 11 total Drives, 9 'real' drives minus the hail mary and fumble. FG, missed FG, downs, FG, TD, TD, TD, TD. 9 drives, 33 points, 4 TDs, 3 FGs. WTF more do you want?

Kdo5 · Feb 5, 2018

Satchboogie3 said:
Some people would rather blame Brady and McDaniels for not score a TD on every drive than admit that BB f*cked up and his vaunted defense was trash. It's sad.

Is anyone seriously blaming Brady? They need to stop talking about football if that is the case. He was the easy MVP if we pulled that game out. He was the best player on the field last night by far.

Ring 6 · Feb 5, 2018

Kargetina said:
He couldn’t have humiliated him more than suiting him and then telling him before the game that he’s not playing, creating a situation where a guy that was an All Pro last year is crying his eyes out in front of 100 million people because he isn’t good enough but All World CB Johnson Bademosi is.

A coach is just not going to publicly cite reasons for benching a player. It’s ridiculous to expect it.
Perhaps butler shouldn’t have done whatever got him benched so he wouldn’t have to cry.

If Butler was inactive i could understand the code of silence but he was ready to play with his helmet on, and he didn’t either because he wasn’t good enough in Belichicks eyes or because he was punished...infront of the whole world.

In neither case will a coach publicly disclose issues about a player he benched. You need to get that thigh your head. It doesn’t happen. Ever.

And the “in case of injury” thing doesn’t make any sense under scrutiny. So let’s say Gilmore got injured on the first play, and then Butler plays the entire game...so his transgression couldn’t have been that bad if he could play the entire game under a particular circumstance, was it?

That is obtuse. You have a limited number of players.

On the other hand if he was benched because the coaches actually believed he wasn’t the best option...and still didn’t make an adjustment during the second half where Philly scored on every drive...well there’s not much to say about it really.

Depends on the reasons. If his head wasn’t in the game it doesn’t matter who else is in there. We don’t know. One thing we do know is that belichick felt based on all the circumstances that his was what was best for the team. He has proven that he deserves the benefit of the doubt in that area, and surely he did believe this was best.

PatriotsNumero1Fan · Feb 5, 2018

IcyPatriot said:
Blaming the Butler decision is easy hanging fruit.

We lost because we could not pressure Foles and we could not counter their expertly effective jam routes.

Butler should have played. He's one of our best players on defense.

billikens · Feb 5, 2018

billikens said:
I don't buy this Malcolm Butler benching caused us to lose the Super Bowl and Belichick is to blame for all of this. For one, none of us on this board have any facts to work with, much less a full picture of what really happened. Without that, it's needless speculation. Belichick has his reasons, maybe we'll find out, maybe we won't. But I sure as hell am not going to second guess the guy.

Also, considering we lost a one score game and had possession to end the game, we need to account:

-A missed filed goal (on botched snap) and missed extra point - half of the margin of our loss right there
-An inexplicable fourth down try in the first half with five yards to go while in field goal range in a domed stadium
-Tom Brady, also inexplicably, running for the sideline and getting tackled short rather than throwing the ball away with no time outs as the time was running out in the first half
-Amendola overthrowing a wide open Brady, who is 6'4" with the ball off his outstretched fingertips ending a promising possession
-Bademosi not making a crucial tackle on third down with the Eagles deep in their territory late in the game, which I believe the Eagles went on to score on that drive
-Brady getting stripped sacked late in fourth quarter, allowing Philly to score, but just as crucially burning too much clock and spending time outs after getting ball back
-Cutesy plays like the Cooks end around leap (short) on a 3-2 and the failed Amendola-Brady pass (which was on fourth down, right?) instead of just playing solid no frills offense

If any one of these plays were executed properly by the Patriots, the outcome may indeed have been different. Our exeuction and clock management at the end of both halfs, in particular, were not good. With the exception of the Bademosi missed tackle, Butler's absence had nothing to do with these screw ups.

Contrary to some of the replies to this post, it is neither meant to blame the offense or absolve the defense. The point is there were specific, identifiable screw ups in the game that the majority of which the Pats Wouldn't normally make in any particular game. In the case last night, if any one of these didn't happen, it very well could have been a different game considering we had the lead late in the game. That's all I'm saying. I surely think we had a problem with third down on both sides of the ball, despite Brady's productivity, there were way too many missed tackles and we got little pressure on Foles, but that was not the point of my post. We still had a chance to win this game without Butler but we made too many bone headed mistakes - much more than the Eagles, which is why they won.

Silver Blue&Red · Feb 5, 2018

We lost.

The end!

PatsFanInVa · Feb 5, 2018

vuudu said:
Not complaining about the results, I am pointing out that there are no checks and balances with BB. He needs a strong personalty on his team to provide positive feedback and a rare course correction. If he had those checks, he may well have won two more super bowls than he has.

Look, I have lived my life to be able to tell when certain actions are just bad omen. Like cutting a cut a day before Superbowl, you mess with the team.

This is a first world problem here. It is just a minor annoyance/rant. No other coach I will like to support though. He is brilliant, that fact is proven and settled.

Glad for last paragraph there. I don't know about checks and balances. He gives coordinators a lot of play. He treats his players as men. He prefers a side-eye or an understated comment to a high-decibel rant.

But no, it's not a democracy.

Every mechanism we come up with is suspect but at the end, as he will be the first to say, every one of his moves is on him.

He believed in what he was doing - whatever the reasons.

He did some head-scratchers there. The reason given on Butler is one of them. I'm not sure we ever find out anything past what he and Patricia game-planned.

I mean, if I had a radio show, I could say that he was caught hacking BB's Surface so that all that stuff they do on their tablets appeared directly on the Iggles sidelines, and set up a camera on the sidelines as a practical joke, and stuck needles in all the footballs, and BB had to do what he did to avoid losing another X games of Brady and the stripping of an entire year's draft.

I'd have no reason to say it but it would be a story explaining the event.

We have 2 facts in play here.

Butler did not play.

The Pats D did very poorly.

You might want to add, the Iggles executed quite well on offense, showing a little respect for a team that really got after it given the opportunity.

Maybe in a week there will be proof positive of something more solid than "We didn't want MB playing tonight, we wanted Rowe and others."

IcyPatriot · Feb 5, 2018

PatriotsNumero1Fan said:
Butler should have played. He's one of our best players on defense.

1 of 11 ... last I checked Butler doesn't rush the QB - Foles was comfortable - Butler or no Butler.

Kdo5 · Feb 5, 2018

AndyJohnson said:
A coach is just not going to publicly cite reasons for benching a player. It’s ridiculous to expect it.
Perhaps butler shouldn’t have done whatever got him benched so he wouldn’t have to cry.

In neither case will a coach publicly disclose issues about a player he benched. You need to get that thigh your head. It doesn’t happen. Ever.

That is obtuse. You have a limited number of players.

Depends on the reasons. If his head wasn’t in the game it doesn’t matter who else is in there. We don’t know. One thing we do know is that belichick felt based on all the circumstances that his was what was best for the team. He has proven that he deserves the benefit of the doubt in that area, and surely he did believe this was best.

And he was wrong and too stubborn to fix it when he had ample opportunity. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one. He's made mistakes before. Welker was a little different but same idea. Trying to send a message even when it hurts the team in a big game.

Ring 6 · Feb 5, 2018

vuudu said:
Not complaining about the results, I am pointing out that there are no checks and balances with BB. He needs a strong personalty on his team to provide positive feedback and a rare course correction. If he had those checks, he may well have won two more super bowls than he has.
Look, I have lived my life to be able to tell when certain actions are just bad omen. Like cutting a cut a day before Superbowl, you mess with the team.
This is a first world problem here. It is just a minor annoyance/rant. No other coach I will like to support though. He is brilliant, that fact is proven and settled.

You dont need some one overseeing the GOAT.
Belichick is reknowned for getting feedback and opinions from his staff. Why would we assume this decision wasn’t nade with agreement by Patricia, Boyer, Ernie and probably caserio as well. It’s likely kraft was aware as well.

Bella*chick · Feb 5, 2018

Kargetina said:
He couldn’t have humiliated him more than suiting him and then telling him before the game that he’s not playing, creating a situation where a guy that was an All Pro last year is crying his eyes out in front of 100 million people because he isn’t good enough but All World CB Johnson Bademosi is.

It’s kind of hard to argue with this.

Ring 6 · Feb 5, 2018

Kdo5 said:
And he was wrong and too stubborn to fix it when he had ample opportunity. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Of course he does because he knows why and you do not and his track record speaks for itself.
You can’t know it was wrong because you don’t know the facts.

Kargetina · Feb 5, 2018

AndyJohnson said:
A coach is just not going to publicly cite reasons for benching a player. It’s ridiculous to expect it.
Perhaps butler shouldn’t have done whatever got him benched so he wouldn’t have to cry.

In neither case will a coach publicly disclose issues about a player he benched. You need to get that thigh your head. It doesn’t happen. Ever.

That is obtuse. You have a limited number of players.

Depends on the reasons. If his head wasn’t in the game it doesn’t matter who else is in there. We don’t know. One thing we do know is that belichick felt based on all the circumstances that his was what was best for the team. He has proven that he deserves the benefit of the doubt in that area, and surely he did believe this was best.

I completely disagree...if we played decently sure, he’s made a decision and he’s sticking to it. But this is not a one isolated thing.

This was a 4 hour game, a game where Philly was driving at will, and he could have inserted Butler at any point during it.

Butler allowed 2/4 catches for 42 yards and a pass break up against the Jags.

For comparison, Gilmore allowed 3/5 catches for 53 yards and a pass break up.

That was two weeks ago. There’s absolutely NO chance that Butler regressed so badly in two weeks that he didn’t deserve a single snap. He didn’t miss a single snap during the two playoff games.

This isn’t a Collins situation where he gradually started losing snaps before being traded.

Considering this, the only actual debate in this discussion is whether Butler did something that was worthy of throwing away a Super Bowl to uphold a principle l.

Unless he broke the law, i dont care what happened behind the scenes, I completely disagree with it. And considering he suited up and he was active and played on special teams , he most certainly didn’t broke the law.

PatriotsNumero1Fan · Feb 5, 2018

IcyPatriot said:
1 of 11 ... last I checked Butler doesn't rush the QB - Foles was comfortable - Butler or no Butler.

10-16 on 3rd downs. I don't think they go 10-16 on 3rd downs with butler there. It also makes our defense be aggressive in terms of maybe blitzing. I saw no blitzing at all. The whole d line got whipped. They really need some players upfront as well.

Patriot Missile · Feb 5, 2018

Steve:Section 102 [QUOTE="IcyPatriot said:
1 of 11 ... last I checked Butler doesn't rush the QB - Foles was comfortable - Butler or no Butler.

Just one 3rd or 4th down stop. It is what it is. He didn't play, end of story. Better team won.

Ring 6 · Feb 5, 2018

Kargetina said:
I completely disagree...if we played decently sure, he’s made a decision and he’s sticking to it. But this is not a one isolated thing.

This was a 4 hour game, a game where Philly was driving at will, and he could have inserted Butler at any point during it.

And you have no idea why. Do you honestly think belichick benches a starter who played 98% of the snaps on a whim with no real reason?

Butler allowed 2/4 catches for 42 yards and a pass break up against the Jags.

For comparison, Gilmore allowed 3/5 catches for 53 yards and a pass break up.

That was two weeks ago. There’s absolutely NO chance that Butler regressed so badly in two weeks that he didn’t deserve a single snap. He didn’t miss a single snap during the two playoff games.

Those numbers don’t match the ones I’ve seen.
Again you don’t know the reason. Yes, if there were no reason to make the change it would be crazy. Obviously that’s not the case.

This isn’t a Collins situation where he gradually started losing snaps before being traded.

Considering this, the only actual debate in this discussion is whether Butler did something that was worthy of throwing away a Super Bowl to uphold a principle l.

That’s a straw man. It’s not play butler win, sit butler lose. There is a lot to this story that you don’t know, otherwise belichick wouldn’t have made the decision he did.

Unless he broke the law, i dont care what happened behind the scenes, I completely disagree with it. And considering he suited up and he was active and played on special teams , he most certainly didn’t broke the law.

How can you disagree with what you dont know? It’s been rumored he was caught with weed, so perhaps he did break the law.
He played 1 play of special teams.
Again we don’t know.

I will go with the greatest coach in back history didn’t decide to sit a starter in the SB for no reason and he painstakingly thought this decision through, because I know that he would never take something like this lightly. It’s just insane to think otherwise.

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