Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

Chris Stevenson · Feb 5, 2018

alvinnf said:
BB thought he could beat Philly without Malcolm Butler, he was wrong!!

No. Torrey smith was taken out. That would have been butler’s guy wih gilmore on agolohor since gilmore is the best man cover guy we have. The reason why agoholror is more dangerous is because he runs the shorter/quicker routes which needed disruption.

Rowe/harmon would have then removed jeffery as the one trick pony.

RobertWeathers · Feb 5, 2018

Chris Stevenson said:
Word is he blew up on the coaches like moss did on o’brien down in miami in week 4 of 2010.

Do we know what the context was re: Malcolm blowup on the coaches? Was this during Sb week?

sambam94 · Feb 5, 2018

so BB would rather make an example of a guy who is not returning next year over winning a SB. It just doesn't make sense. Play the guy, win the SB...and then he's gone

chumpchange · Feb 5, 2018

Steve:Section 102 said:
Ok, so you went there.

In 1996, Parcells left after the Super Bowl to take the Jests job. There are those that believe that he did not give the Patriots, and by extension, RKK his best effort to win that game, because he was sore about having to draft Terry Glenn, who was at the top of his draft board. He wanted to go off the board, rendering his entire draft system useless, and RKK called him on it, which gave us the whole derogatory "she" comment regarding Glenn and, later on, the "you want me to cook the dinner, then let me buy the groceries" comment.

So this year, with have the Wickersham piece, where BB is sore that he's forced to trade Jimmy G, so he trades him for a bag of magic beans (don't kill me for the analogy, I know a 2nd can be a pretty good player), when he maybe could have gotten a higher pick elsewhere. Being PO'd about it, BB, cut from the Parcellian cloth, looks for a way to make a football decision to eff the team to deny RKK the championship. So an opportunity presents itself thru MB's transgression of missed charter/cleaned out locker/ late to Minneapolis/ weed-after-curfew-with-law-enforcement-involvement or (insert other rumor here), and he benches Butler, causing everyone else to move around, play essentially out of position, and they can't stop the Eagles once. They go on to lose the game, and, once again, RKK's meddling in football affairs causes them to lose a Super Bowl. BB leaves town, leaving RKK with no coaching staff, a mess in the locker room, and an old man for a QB.

Or... MB broke team rules, BB has to bench him. Chaos ensues as the staff has to scramble to repair the damage last minute, and they lose.

I have a problem with all my scenarios proposed. BB coached LT for years, and we know LT was a mess and everyone covered for him. Different times, to be sure, but still, they covered for him. The plain old benching doesn't make sense to me either, as BB is the king of adjustments. Why not simply say, ya, I know we said this guy is benched, but we know he's leaving after tonight. Let's get his ass in the game and try to win it, and then ship him.

I dunno. It's a mess, and I don't know how they are gonna fix this.

Interesting take. It did cross my mind if Bill was just digging in his heels--being an ass and refusing to adjust his decision after it was clear the defense was in chaos--because of Kraft siding so vocally with Brady over Bill. It's just simply because this was such an obvious and basic and profoundly stupid coaching mistake that literally everyone knows lost us the game. A first-year coach wouldn't do this, and it's so wildly out-of-character for a Hall of Fame coach, you wonder what other explanation could there be? We know that there's some "tension" because Kraft alluded to it. We know the players considered this a "foolish pride" issue on Bill's part because Hightower specifically confirmed it by liking Browner's assessment and use of that particular phrase. We know Butler didn't do anything completely heinous, because he was on the field on special teams. Assuming Bill didn't temporarily take leave of his senses or have a mini-stroke, what else could explain this absurdly inept decision? Possibly a subconscious "F-You" to Kraft, display of exercising control of his team, and prideful refusal to adjust when he saw his plan wasn't working? I have no idea, but I can't believe this exquisite New England dynasty with the greatest coach and greatest quarterback of all time could possibly be in jeopardy over the unproven Jimmy Garoppolo stepping into a Yoko Ono role.

Patriot_in_NY · Feb 5, 2018

Well, IIRC, as silly as it seems, weed is on the banned substances list by the NFL..... It’s possible that if police or other people were involved, it could have been a decision that went straight to the top (Kraft)?

Could you imagine if Goody found out that the team played a guy busted using a banned substance the night before a SB? How many draft picks and $$ in fines would that be worth? People get suspended for 4 games for crap like that (by the NFL). Might explain why it seemed to be so sudden (time wise). Could be that the legal eagles came down and said... it aunt worth it, and pulled the plug on him and B.B. is just calling it (his decision) like a good soldier.

I have no idea.... just speculating. The whole thing makes no sense.

Ring 6 · Feb 5, 2018

sambam94 said:
so BB would rather make an example of a guy who is not returning next year over winning a SB. It just doesn't make sense. Play the guy, win the SB...and then he's gone

Would you rather sell out your principles to have a better chance to win?
It’s not like butler and Rowe are very far apart any way.

XLIX · Feb 5, 2018

After 60+ pages and hours of discussion, I think what it comes down to is this:

Bill Belichick has team rules. For example: If you fight in practice, you go home. If you are late to practice, you go home.

I don't know what rule Butler broke, but I think Belichick has a rule that if you do XYZ, you don't play - and Butler did XYZ. (EDIT: Or maybe it was a case where Belichick said to Butler "you are down to your last chance, if you do XYZ again, you don't play").

Belichick's team rules are a hill he is willing to die on.

Chris Stevenson · Feb 5, 2018

mb6592 said:
No one on defense "played fine" with the exception of Gilmore and maybe Harrison.

Chung played well, as did lawrence guy (solid all season) and van noy had his moments as did the severely needed and under-utilized marquise flowers in that mcclellin role.

RobertWeathers · Feb 5, 2018

TBR said:
For the sake of debate, let's assume it's true. Is it a stupid mistake to smoke weed and/or be late? Absolutely. But did Butler's actions directly hurt the team? No. They really didn't.

Does Bill benching Butler while refusing to play him despite the D struggling mightily, hurt the team? Yes. Absolutely.

Do abstract disciplinary rules win games? No. Game planning, scheming and putting your best players out on the field wins you games. Something Bill failed to do.

For the sake of debate, if you are Bill and your star CB is missing flights, getting baked, missing curfew and not 100% committing himself to winning you would still start him in the Super Bowl?

PatriotsNumero1Fan · Feb 5, 2018

BB' s a moron for benching butler! There I said it. A lot of controversy with the move.

PatriotsNumero1Fan · Feb 5, 2018

XLIX said:
After 60+ pages and hours of discussion, I think what it comes down to is this:

Bill Belichick has team rules. For example: If you fight in practice, you go home. If you are late to practice, you go home.

I don't know what rule Butler broke, but I think Belichick has a rule that if you do XYZ, you don't play - and Butler did XYZ. (EDIT: Or maybe it was a case where Belichick said to Butler "you are down to your last chance, if you do XYZ again, you don't play").

Belichick's team rules are a hill he is willing to die on.

Don't give me those rules when your defense can't cover a wet paper bag. It's the damn super bowl! He's a goner after the season!

sb1 · Feb 5, 2018

White hawt flaming inferno of a taek.... What if it was discovered Malcolm was the leaker to Wickersham and ESPN?

Knowing how BB operates I could see that warrant a public benching like last night from BB. Not the weed story.

Chris Stevenson · Feb 5, 2018

mb6592 said:
No one on defense "played fine" with the exception of Gilmore and maybe Harrison.

I just did. The problem is, who they had on who. I only stated my match up predictions over and over all week to prove that was my genuine feelings if they were to play so much man.

It was criticsal to match up correctly.

Steve102 · Feb 5, 2018

chumpchange said:
Interesting take. It did cross my mind if Bill was just digging in his heels--being an ass and refusing to adjust his decision after it was clear the defense was in chaos--because of Kraft siding so vocally with Brady over Bill. It's just simply because this was such an obvious and basic and profoundly stupid coaching mistake that literally everyone knows lost us the game. A first-year coach wouldn't do this, and it's so wildly out-of-character for a Hall of Fame coach, you wonder what other explanation could there be? We know that there's some "tension" because Kraft alluded to it. We know the players considered this a "foolish pride" issue on Bill's part because Hightower specifically confirmed it by liking Browner's assessment and use of that particular phrase. We know Butler didn't do anything completely heinous, because he was on the field on special teams. Assuming Bill didn't temporarily take leave of his senses or have a mini-stroke, what else could explain this absurdly inept decision? Possibly a subconscious "F-You" to Kraft, display of exercising control of his team, and prideful refusal to adjust when he saw his plan wasn't working? I have no idea, but I can't believe this exquisite New England dynasty with the greatest coach and greatest quarterback of all time could possibly be in jeopardy over the unproven Jimmy Garoppolo stepping into a Yoko Ono role.

If you remember correctly, Tom Brady Sr. said "when it ends, it will end badly." This is the first day after the Super Bowl loss. Patricia is out. I don't take much stock in High's liking some instagram post. He's a young guy, frustrated they lost, like all of us. But there's a whole lot of fallout to happen as a result of this loss. It's not going to be like 2011. This is just the beginning.

sambam94 · Feb 5, 2018

AndyJohnson said:
Would you rather sell out your principles to have a better chance to win?
It’s not like butler and Rowe are very far apart any way.

His job is to win a championship. If the guy was returning next year, I could maybe see it....but for a guy that bis leaving? Win it for the rest of the players and the fans.

chumpchange · Feb 5, 2018

Steve Buckley's twitter: 'Rob Ninkovich on @WEEI “Dale & Holley” show on Belichick sitting Butler: “If it’s discipline I don’t know if that’s the best way to go about it ... at the end of the day you need your best players on the field.”'

pheenix11 · Feb 5, 2018

Patriot_in_NY said:
Well, IIRC, as silly as it seems, weed is on the banned substances list by the NFL..... It’s possible that if police or other people were involved, it could have been a decision that went straight to the top (Kraft)?

Could you imagine if Goody found out that the team played a guy busted using a banned substance the night before a SB? How many draft picks and $$ in fines would that be worth? People get suspended for 4 games for crap like that (by the NFL). Might explain why it seemed to be so sudden (time wise). Could be that the legal eagles came down and said... it aunt worth it, and pulled the plug on him and B.B. is just calling it (his decision) like a good soldier.

I have no idea.... just speculating. The whole thing makes no sense.

This is crossing my mind as well. But then why play him on special teams?

Soliel · Feb 5, 2018

mosslost said:

I’d do that

PatriotsNumero1Fan · Feb 5, 2018

sambam94 said:
His job is to win a championship. If the guy was returning next year, I could maybe see it....but for a guy that bis leaving? Win it for the rest of the players and the fans.

If he's returning the next season you suspend him for 4 games.

Soliel · Feb 5, 2018

JMC00 said:
Don't go the Butler vs Jones angle because no-one knows enough.

Jones could have come in apologized profusely to Kraft, Belichick, teammates and coaches and did his job the rest of the week in practice.

Butler may not have apologized and went on being pissy about it and half assed it in practice

Also don't forget about the report of Butler being treated for flu-like symptoms Sunday night.. For some reason when I read that just something didn't sit right.

For so shocking of a decision that makes no sense. He’s been smoking drugs

Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

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