Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

StockingAnarchyNumber12 · Feb 4, 2018

TbSB5 said:
Dumb ass.

We lost because:

- Butler benched
- Illegal td by Philly which gifted them 6
- Brady fumble
- Brady drop
- Missed Xp/fg

Benching butler was bad, but change the outcome of any of those? We likely win.

TbSB5 · Feb 4, 2018

StockingAnarchyNumber12 said:
We lost because:

- Butler benched
- Illegal td by Philly which gifted them 6
- Brady fumble
- Brady drop
- Missed Xp/fg

Benching butler was bad, but change the outcome of any of those? We likely win.

Don’t forget stupid trick plays that BB was trying to do. Worst coaching game of his Patriots career. Pathetic Super Bowl.

DaBruinz · Feb 4, 2018

Galeb said:
Here's a fun fact. In any complex situation, you will never have ALL of the information. We MUST make judgements sometimes, but must remain open to the possibility that we are wrong. I'll tell you, though, you arguing that others need to be more open minded is ****ing hilarious.

While you MUST make judgements sometimes, it's ****ing hilarious that you think you have even a modicum of information to make one yet.

And, contrary to people like yourself, I'm VERY open-minded. The issue with you and many others is that you can't actually present a cogent argument that would change a person's mind.

PatriotsNumero1Fan · Feb 4, 2018

We might never know the truth.

Sciz · Feb 5, 2018

SalemPats said:
I can't see that being true. Gilmore and Rowe didn't know Butler wasn't starting. After Rowe was getting torched by Jeffrey why wouldn't you put in Butler to cover Smith and Agholor as Rowe is not quick enough. This was either an egomaniacal move or there is something that happened off the field that we don't know about

If Butler did in fact look like hot garbage in warmups, I’m not sure what any bad play by anther player changes. That’s my point in all of this. Clearly something bad was up with Butler, so I don’t understand why people keep drawing this arbitrary line where they assume it was only “kinda bad” and not “best players did actually play” bad despite that being the message being sent by the snap counts.

SalemPats · Feb 5, 2018

Galeb said:
I actually explicitly stated that there was a small chance that there was some truly bizarre explanation... yet nobody has presented one. The information that I do have is that Butler cried pregrame, played on special teams and didn't play a single snap on D. If Butler didn't play ST, there could be many explanations. Since he did, I have yet to hear or imagine a plausible explanation.

Here's a fun fact. In any complex situation, you will never have ALL of the information. We MUST make judgements sometimes, but must remain open to the possibility that we are wrong. I'll tell you, though, you arguing that others need to be more open minded is ****ing hilarious.

Agreed. But our front 7 is not very good and was horrible today. Our secondary is our bread and butter. Benching Butler made us a worse defense today. There is no arguing that, we just saw the proof. The fact that he played ST, but did not even get one defensive snap, Rowe and Gilmore were unaware he was getting benched and he practiced in warmups as a starter. This story is mind-boggling. He played 97% of our snaps.

festy1986 · Feb 5, 2018

PatriotsNumero1Fan said:
We might never know the truth.

We're gonna know by tomororw night.

Butler is done here and has zero reason to be quiet

Banjo · Feb 5, 2018

I don't think anyone will blame Butler when he decides to leave. You can't "buy in" on a coach after something like this.

The way they traded Jimmy, benching Butler. These are BAD moves by Belichick and I can't help but wonder if this season was a "jump the shark" moment for him.

SalemPats · Feb 5, 2018

festy1986 said:
We're gonna know by tomororw night.

Butler is done here and has zero reason to be quiet

He almost has to say something because this question will come up with FA looming

DaBruinz · Feb 5, 2018

luuked said:
Richards was not a slot corner. He has a very narrow role as safety/lb in certain subpackages. That is how they even got him matched up on that wheel route.

Except, tonight, they had Richards in on Multi-receiver sets and he ended up being the one who was supposed to cover Torrey Smith on one play, Nelson Agholor on another and Zack Ertz on another. He failed miserably in doing so. Not to mention the failure on the Clement Wheel route.,

luuked · Feb 5, 2018

DaBruinz said:
Sorry, luuked, but I don't believe that the snap counts support your claims.. I believe after the Chiefs debacle, Richards was more of a sub for Chung than going in on sub-packages WITH Chung. The Patriots tried (and failed miserably) to mold Richards into a future Chung, but Richards just doesn't seem to be able to put it together.

New England Patriots 2017 Snap Counts | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Unfortunately, the Patriots were in a bad position tonight. They only had 4 CBs dressed (Gilmore, Rowe, Butler, Bademosi). Remove Butler and limit Bademosi to playing just STs in the 1st half and you're FORCED to put Richards on the field in Dime Situations. Situations that, normally, would see Jones or Rowe out there, not Richards.

I dont fully get your point with the snap counts. Richards was simply the third safety for (big) nickel. Given the number of (RPO and other) crossing routes the Eagles have shown on tape with 2 TE sets he was the logical matchup as much as I hate it.

Ras-IR Dowling · Feb 5, 2018

Butler looking bad in warmups goes along with the “they gave up on me” line but doesn’t mesh with players like Dmac knowing he wasn’t part of the gameplan

festy1986 · Feb 5, 2018

SalemPats said:
He almost has to say something because this question will come up with FA looming

Whatever it is. I can't imagine that even if I agree with bill that it's worth taking the whole game from him.

Bourne Again Christian · Feb 5, 2018

DaBruinz said:
Except, tonight, they had Richards in on Multi-receiver sets and he ended up being the one who was supposed to cover Torrey Smith on one play, Nelson Agholor on another and Zack Ertz on another. He failed miserably in doing so. Not to mention the failure on the Clement Wheel route.,

He may be the nicest guy maybe will make a good to great coach but the man is not athletic enough to be in the NFL.

neuronet · Feb 5, 2018

PatriotsNumero1Fan said:
We might never know the truth.

That is the one truth we can pretty much bank on.

DaBruinz · Feb 5, 2018

Ras-IR Dowling said:
That’s fine if Dmac knew. And if butler Fd up then BB will do what’s best for the team. But the entire team needs to know what’s going on, as Rowe and Gilmore didn’t.

Rowe and Gilmore MIGHT have known but decided they'd rather stick up for Malcolm by saying it was a surprise to them..

luuked · Feb 5, 2018

DaBruinz said:
Except, tonight, they had Richards in on Multi-receiver sets and he ended up being the one who was supposed to cover Torrey Smith on one play, Nelson Agholor on another and Zack Ertz on another. He failed miserably in doing so. Not to mention the failure on the Clement Wheel route.,

The wheel route I honestly dont care about. I dont remember a single defensive player no matter how athletically gifted (Hello Jamie Collins) covering it properly. I have given up on those.

I am not sure if he was supposed to cover Smith or Agholor or motions and shifting just matched him up on those players. Playdesign from the Eagles was pretty good.

Ras-IR Dowling · Feb 5, 2018

luuked said:
I dont fully get your point with the snap counts. Richards was simply the third safety for (big) nickel. Given the number of (RPO and other) crossing routes the Eagles have shown on tape with 2 TE sets he was the logical matchup as much as I hate it.

This is a huge area that needs to be addressed over the spring and summer. Find players who can defend the RPO well. We struggled against this not tonight but all season, Carolina and Houston come to mind.

festy1986 · Feb 5, 2018

DaBruinz said:
Rowe and Gilmore MIGHT have known but decided they'd rather stick up for Malcolm by saying it was a surprise to them..

No one should know before butler and frankly butler not finding out until tip off doesn' jibe with that.

Boomer B · Feb 5, 2018

There’s definitely a talent gap in our front 7. We need better talent at LB and on the D-line.

The Titans and Jags were not good enough offensively to give us huge problems, but we were exposed by the Eagles. No push from the line, Foles had all day to make big plays and they ran all over us. We need more talent.

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