Patriots Super Bowl week Thread: Practice Notes, Injury Updates, etc.

RIpats88 said:

Mazz is picking the Eagles of course...says they are a better team than the patriots talent wise

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RIpats88 said:

Mazz is picking the Eagles of course...says they are a better team than the patriots talent wise

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patchick said:

Yep, always. How many picks by any team turn out to have been the best possible pick the team could have made at that point? BB & co. have made some spectacular picks, and some dreadful picks. Pointing out individual successes and failures doesn't tell us much, because every team has both. The question is, do the Patriots do better or worse than could reasonably be expected? (Keeping in mind, of course, they've had far and away the worst draft position of any team in the league over the past two decades.)

Having spent a ton of time in the PatsFans draft forum over the years, I can tell you that draftnik sentiment is absolutely, positively NOT a predictor of player success. This goes just as much for the most vocal critics of BB's drafting as anybody else -- it's just selective memory that says otherwise. Even with Tavon Wilson, perhaps the most famous case where fans were right to complain about a massive "reach," we tend to forget that at the time, we collectively felt that the excellent pick of Jake Bequette a round later helped make up for the Wilson selection.

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KontradictioN said:

Butler needs to be quarantined and away from the team. Does anyone have any doubt that this ISN’T the flu?

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Deus Irae said:

Who is "we" in that instance? It wasn't fans in general, as I recall.

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maineman209 said:

Even Tavon Wilson turned out to be a pretty good safety - in a different system (he led the Lions in tackles the season after he left the Pats).

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KontradictioN said:

Butler needs to be quarantined and away from the team. Does anyone have any doubt that this ISN’T the flu?

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patchick said:

I actually went back to check my memory before I posted that about Bequette! I won't quote the dozens of positive posts from the time so as to protect the innocent (and not-so-innocent), but yes, Bequette was a generally popular pick and was talked about quite a lot pre-draft as well, with solid consensus that he'd make a good value by the 3rd.

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maineman209 said:

IIRC, many folks felt the same way about Nink for his first 3-4 years of his career with the Pats, even though he played the same OLB/DE edge role that Vrabel had. Nink, like Flowers, also played mostly on ST during the first half of his first season with the Pats.

The thing is, with the Pats using multiple 34/43, 1-gap/2-gap fronts, the edge-defender role for many players doesn't fit neatly into a positional box. Vrabel was nominally a "34 OLB" who played a "DE" role frequently (and even some ILB). Nink did the same. Hightower has done the same. Now Flowers is playing that role. Derek Rivers may have been slotted for that type of role before his injury.

I don't see how acknowledging that there are players who have, and are, following in Vrabel's footsteps in that role is any disservice to him.

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maineman209 said:

My bad.

I thought that the comment you were responding to was about Marquis Flowers. Other things that M. Flowers appear to have in common with Vrabel and Nink are discipline, a strong work ethic and the ability to improve.

Marsh demonstrated none of those qualities, obviously.

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pwes said:

How the hell are these guys always getting sick before big games?

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maineman209 said:

Even Tavon Wilson turned out to be a pretty good safety - in a different system (he led the Lions in tackles the season after he left the Pats).

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Elijah said:

I've got nothing but respect for your football posts, but I disagree about Flowers here. I think he's a pure linebacker.

At 6'3" 230, he's a good amount thinner than Vrabel (6'4" 260) and Ninkovich (6'2" 260). I know the times are changing and players are going more for speed, but his size along with how he's been used in the past scream linebacker (in the 3-4 ILB sense) to me.

This part is anecdotal, but I remember Ninkovich being an OLB/DE from day 1. He played DE in Miami and New Orleans, too. The controversy, as I recall it, was whether he was "the worst starter in the NFL."

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reamer said:

Nink was a long snapper in NO I believe.

Flowers has been 250 for a while. He was only 230 coming into the league. While he's a bit on the light side for a full time De, he's perfect for the hybrid defense we've been running lately. I think he and Van Noy will make a terrific group along with Hightower when they're all back and healthy.

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patchick said:

...Pointing out individual successes and failures doesn't tell us much, because every team has both. The question is, do the Patriots do better or worse than could reasonably be expected? (Keeping in mind, of course, they've had far and away the worst draft position of any team in the league over the past two decades.)

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luuked said:

Quite honestly I am not sure Flowers will be back with us next year. He might turn into the typical BB 5-6th round comp pick situation in FA.

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TommyBrady12 said:

Quarantine him

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maineman209 said:

Mobster and his gunmoll.

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Mack Herron said:

Nah, send him out with Blount and Long.

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