Poll Added I think: Has the Pats Dynasty UNDER-Achieved?

If I could change one play per season - and not even a huge change, just turn around one minor thing - I could give the Patriots 8 Super Bowl championships OR I could give them 0.

Given that they’ve been so close to the line between winning and losing so much, I think having the greatest coach/QB dynasty in history with 5 championships with 7 conference championships is right where they should be.

We're asking if the most accomplished team in NFL history has underachieved?

This thread is why fans of other NFL teams hate the Patriots.

Tremendously underachieved. More often than not they have failed to end the season with a win. They've had like sixteen chances to win the Super Bowl during the First Belichick Dynasty and won less than half. Hopefully his sons and heirs will do better.

Totally playing with house money IMO.

The '07 loss still sucks. That was immortality calling.

The second loss to the Giants, IMO, was not as bad. They were lucky to be there. Ravens dropped a TD (with good DB coverage) and missed a kick.

My only issue is once, just once, I would like a 56-10 shellacking. I just want to sit there and drink my adult bevvies and celebrate the greatness. Just once before this run is over.

what the hell is this garbage? this thread is a HOF candidate for worst thread ever.

Win five titles, and possibly underachieve?

Wow, we really are spoiled.

People think that because you have a championship-caliber roster that you should be expected to win the Super Bowl. That's obviously not the case. Each year there are going to be at least 4 championship caliber teams, and at least 3 of them don't end the season with the title.

captain insano said:

what the hell is this garbage? this thread is a HOF candidate for worst thread ever.

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Right, this is the kind of thread that makes our fanbase look spoiled. I realize we ARE in fact spoiled, but we shouldn't show it so proudly with posts like this.

Every NFL dynasty is going to experience good and bad fortune during their run, whether it's injuries, officiating, plays made/not made or the luck of the bounce. As others have noted, with a handful of plays going differently, the Patriots could have 8 titles or 2.

What we will never know is how great the Brady/Belichick era could have been if the league wasn't putting obstacles in their way. The 2008 1st round pick could have been nearing the end of a solid career while the 2016 first rounder may becoming a force this season. Or maybe the team would have dealt those picks for more picks/other players who helped the team.

It's been mentioned that it's difficult to compare dynasties because the 70s Steelers and 80s 49ers didn't have to deal with the salary cap or free agency. Some team is going to win multiple titles and become the elite franchise after the Patriots' run is over. They'll have to deal with free agency, the cap and some new wrinkle that's not around now. There's no way they'll have to deal with the BS Goodell threw at the Patriots, though.

Imo, the only reason why anyone would feel like New England should have won more titles is because of the close losses in the AFC title games and Super Bowls.

Bill Belichick took Tom Brady and 52 scarecrows dressed in Patriots uniforms to the AFC Title game in 06,13,15. Just because the GOATS took them one play away from winning those games doesn't mean they were good enough to win or deserved to win a SB title.

Realistically, they were not good/healthy enough when they lost, minus 2007, and 2010. 02,05,06,09,11,12,13,15 were some great teams, but realistically none of them were good enough to win, although any of those teams could have won because of the QB/HC.

Overall I think 5 is very appropriate and I'd say they have a great shot at grabbing a 6th. If they win this year, I think they will have 3-5 more shots at winning their 7th.

We weren’t good enough in 2005, I don’t get why some people are so upset about that one

fightingirish595 said:

This is a laughable poll. You’re better than this mosslost. I hope this is a joke

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Mosslost IS THIS ! Where have ya been ? This is exactly why Mosslost is to be adored. Big fan.

stinkypete said:

We're asking if the most accomplished team in NFL history has underachieved?

This thread is why fans of other NFL teams hate the Patriots.

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brdmaverick said:

Right, this is the kind of thread that makes our fanbase look spoiled. I realize we ARE in fact spoiled, but we shouldn't show it so proudly with posts like this.

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Other fans are aware of anything we think, write, and argue about?

In reality, we don't even have to show up in their lives anywhere for them to hate us. It is purely tribal jealousy.

brdmaverick said:

Right, this is the kind of thread that makes our fanbase look spoiled. I realize we ARE in fact spoiled, but we shouldn't show it so proudly with posts like this.

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Embrace the hate. We should be popping Cristal in the other fanbases’ face ! Change the rules again Indy ! That’ll teach us !

Joey007 said:

We weren’t good enough in 2005, I don’t get why some people are so upset about that one

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Combination of things. Brady and Bill hadn't lost together at that point. It was Jake Plummer. They had been getting better at the end of the season to give us some hope. Ultimately not good enough.

Lets go year by year. I'll go with just super bowl wins and start in 2001.

2001 - win - should they have won that year? No.
2002 - lose - should they have won that year? No
2003 - win - should they have won that year? Yes.
2004 - win - should they have won that year? Yes
2005 - lose - should they have won that year? No.
2006 - lose - should they have won that year? No.
2007 - lose - should they have won that year? Yes +1
2008 - lose - should they have won that year? No.
2009 - lose - should they have won that year? No.
2010 - lose - should they have won that year? Maybe. 2010 GB was pretty good.
2011 - lose - should they have won that year? No. D just wasn't good enough.
2012 - lose - should they have won that year? No. Same as above.
2013 - lose - should they have won that year? No.
2014 - win - should they have won that year? Yes.
2015 - lose - should they have won that year? Maybe
2016 - win - should they have won that year? Yes.

So in retrospect they stole a win one year. Lost another they should have won. And had a few years where maybe they should have won but not the clear cut best.

I would say overall It was a very slight underachievement but also 6 could be argued to be an over achievement.

New England Pride said:

Combination of things. Brady and Bill hadn't lost together at that point. It was Jake Plummer. They had been getting better at the end of the season to give us some hope. Ultimately not good enough.

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We looked good in that Jacksonville game, but the 2005 Jags were a very fraudulent 12-4 team. Had an extremely easy sched.

Teams lose games they should win all the time and vice versa.

The 2006 SD team was man handling the patriots. The with 7 minutes left, down 13 to 21 Brady gets intercepted. At that point they had a 96% chance of losing. Then Troy Brown forces a fumble on the interception return, and the pats go score a TD and 2 point conversion to tie.

It's hard to win Super Bowls. As far as I can tell the Patriots have beaten more teams they should have lost to them vice versa.

betterthanthealternative said:

Other fans are aware of anything we think, write, and argue about?

In reality, we don't even have to show up in their lives anywhere for them to hate us. It is purely tribal jealousy.

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Yes, believe it or not fans of one football team sometimes troll opposing team's fan forums. I've seen multiple threads on this forum providing links to some humorous positions taken by opposing fans on their boards.

Regardless, the whole premise is just beyond absurd that we should even contemplate Brady's 5 Super Bowl wins as an underachievement. That is trolling to the 100th degree.

Bobsyouruncle said:

Teams lose games they should win all the time and vice versa.

The 2006 SD team was man handling the patriots. The with 7 minutes left, down 13 to 21 Brady gets intercepted. At that point they had a 96% chance of losing. Then Troy Brown forces a fumble on the interception return, and the pats go score a TD and 2 point conversion to tie.

It's hard to win Super Bowls. As far as I can tell the Patriots have beaten more teams they should have lost to them vice versa.

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Agreed, in reality the '06 Patriots had no business beating the '06 Chargers. People don't want to lament on that though.

But no, let's not appreciate the great wins we've had when we can complain about the the ones we didn't.