“The Tuck Rule started the Patriots dynasty”

sb1 · Nov 17, 2017

TheBostonStraggler said:
Again if memory serves me one other very very BFD in the 01 season was the second half of 01's D. That D became a power house and was probably playing the best football in the NFL. My memory is fuzzy on this but I only remember the Rams doing any real scoring on the D in the second half -- and even that (27 points) was far lower than the Rams' normal scoring.

Glad the game is back up on YouTube. We lost but it’s fun to watch.

Pats2000 · Nov 18, 2017

TheBostonStraggler said:
Not a bad (well bad for Drew's poor lung) choice and it very well could be THE catalyst, however, the discussion itself is so far flung (not a comment directed at you DI). Many things went into the dynasty and picking one moment it started is like rolling dice. Hell it could be argued that the Dynasty started when Brady's father and mother opened a bottle one of wine and put a Engelbert Humperdinck record on the turn table one evening in 1976.
If there is to be a 'dynasty started' designation then, IMHO, it would be the entirety of the 01 Patriots vs the 00 team. 2 wins to a 10 win division winner is where it begins. And even if we lose to the Raiders in the AFCDG, if we still win the SBs in 03 and 04 I think the dynasty could be argued had started in the massive turn around from 00 to 01.

Also, IMHO and arguably, we could have made it to the playoffs with Slinger Drew as QB -- not as likely but possible (we would not have won the SB, no way). Brady's numbers (if memory serves me) definitely weren't breaking any records in 01. The big differences were Bledsoe was a passer while Brady was also a leader, Bledsoe would chuck into triple coverage, Brady the kid knew when to hold 'em and knew when to fold 'em). Again if memory serves me one other very very BFD in the 01 season was the second half of 01's D. That D became a power house and was probably playing the best football in the NFL. My memory is fuzzy on this but I only remember the Rams doing any real scoring on the D in the second half -- and even that (27 points) was far lower than the Rams' normal scoring.

Bottom line: the D + Brady not giving away points & his critical moment drives + BB&RC/CW/Other staff team preparation = a Patriot team good enough to eke out a win against anyone, anywhere. We just needed a few good bounces to string together wins and get to the big show (where the D employed the "assault and battery" tackling that made the Ram's receivers a bit, ahem, shy about some of their usually productive routes).

But if we are picking out Raider game moments, how about the AV snow globe FG that probably never got more than 15 feet high in the air?

I'm just trying to figure how you know the details of Brady's conception...

SammyBlueCat · Nov 18, 2017

Execution won that game. (Blocking, tackling, and a little bit of cat like quickness mixed in.)

TheBostonStraggler · Nov 18, 2017

cscirpoli said:
I'm just trying to figure how you know the details of Brady's conception...

Tom Sr. was a friend and he wasn't too smooth with the ladies. So I gave him the solid 1976 advice of a glass of wine, Engelbert Humperdink's From Me to You side B, and whenever possible say "groovy" and "you're dynamite".

A few weeks later he said my advice was outta sight. 9 Months later Tom Jr was born. You do the math

Rusty Coupe · Nov 18, 2017

Clonamery · Nov 18, 2017

TheBostonStraggler said:
So I gave him the solid 1976 advice of a glass of wine, Engelbert Humperdink's From Me to You side B, and whenever possible say "groovy" and "you're dynamite".

That didn't work for everyone.

Ivan · Nov 18, 2017

Bill Belichick started the Patriots Dynasty, and with Brady he has maintained it for almost two decades.

One strange play doesn’t create 18 years of consistently exceptional success.

lancerman · Nov 18, 2017

I'll be the controversial guy. The Patriots would not have won that Raiders game if not for the Tuck Rule. The Tuck Rule was a rule that existed from 1999-2013. The rule was applied correctly so there is nothing wrong with it. Still if that rule didn't exist that ball becomes a fumble and we lose that game and don't win the Super Bowl that year.

Most people consider the Patriots dynasty to have started in 2001. Even if everything else remains the same, we'd probably be saying the Patriots dynasty started in 2003 if not for the Tuck Rule. Multiple things had to happen for the dynasty to start and if they didn't it wouldn't have started then. The Tuck Rule was one of those many things. So in principle it's right that the start occurred in a season where the Tuck Rule game needed to happen. But had it not, it likely only delays the dynasty. Just like Bledsoe not getting hurt likely only delays the dynasty.

And that's okay.

jmt57 · Nov 19, 2017

There were eight NFL teams that had a better record than Oakland in 2001.

The Raiders and their fans have no business whining about what happened that post-season. Stop pretending they were the best team in the league that year.

- Zero points in their final four possessions.
- Only one touchdown the entire game.
- Six points in their final ten possessions.
- 230 yards of total offense in 68 minutes.

Get over it.

TheBostonStraggler · Nov 19, 2017

lancerman said:
I'll be the controversial guy. The Patriots would not have won that Raiders game if not for the Tuck Rule. The Tuck Rule was a rule that existed from 1999-2013. The rule was applied correctly so there is nothing wrong with it. Still if that rule didn't exist that ball becomes a fumble and we lose that game and don't win the Super Bowl that year.

Most people consider the Patriots dynasty to have started in 2001. Even if everything else remains the same, we'd probably be saying the Patriots dynasty started in 2003 if not for the Tuck Rule. Multiple things had to happen for the dynasty to start and if they didn't it wouldn't have started then. The Tuck Rule was one of those many things. So in principle it's right that the start occurred in a season where the Tuck Rule game needed to happen. But had it not, it likely only delays the dynasty. Just like Bledsoe not getting hurt likely only delays the dynasty.

And that's okay.

Understood. But the Patriots would not have won that game without a lot of thing especially the AV 45 yard FG in the snow storm. A kick that probably didn't get above 15 feet elevation at its peak.
The tuck: a challenge flag thrown that resulted in an interpretation of a rule.
The FG: a long kick in extremely difficult weather conditions with the game on the line.
I don't get the tuck being a greater 'thing'.

supafly · Nov 19, 2017

TheBostonStraggler said:
Understood. But the Patriots would not have won that game without a lot of thing especially the AV 45 yard FG in the snow storm. A kick that probably didn't get above 15 feet elevation at its peak.
The tuck: a challenge flag thrown that resulted in an interpretation of a rule.
The FG: a long kick in extremely difficult weather conditions with the game on the line.
I don't get the tuck being a greater 'thing'.

View attachment 18647

Jeez, I’ve never thought about which play had a bigger impact, but it would be difficult to go against such a historic kick, especially since it officially won the game for them.

I do agree with the other poster who feels as though we’d have lost without the tuck rule, since it would’ve been a fumble, but no one should dispute the importance of Adam’s kick. I actually have a collector’s item pair of cuff links that they made from the red seats after that game, and Ive been meaning to get them “set” inside some type of glass housing or something, hopefully with a nice pic of that GW FG. Sadly, I’ve been too occupied/lazy to move forward with the idea thus far, so they just sit in a box upstairs in the office.

Deus Irae · Nov 19, 2017

lancerman said:
I'll be the controversial guy. The Patriots would not have won that Raiders game if not for the Tuck Rule. The Tuck Rule was a rule that existed from 1999-2013. The rule was applied correctly so there is nothing wrong with it. Still if that rule didn't exist that ball becomes a fumble and we lose that game and don't win the Super Bowl that year.

Most people consider the Patriots dynasty to have started in 2001. Even if everything else remains the same, we'd probably be saying the Patriots dynasty started in 2003 if not for the Tuck Rule. Multiple things had to happen for the dynasty to start and if they didn't it wouldn't have started then. The Tuck Rule was one of those many things. So in principle it's right that the start occurred in a season where the Tuck Rule game needed to happen. But had it not, it likely only delays the dynasty. Just like Bledsoe not getting hurt likely only delays the dynasty.

And that's okay.

What's controversial about saying that if the rules were different, things might have turned out differently? If Polian hadn't gone crying to the league after the Patriots spent a couple of years destroying his Colts, Brady might have 8-10 rings already, and Peyton would, almost certainly, have retired without a ring.

Tony2046 · Nov 19, 2017

SammyBlueCat said:
Execution won that game. (Blocking, tackling, and a little bit of cat like quickness mixed in.)

Avatar change alert!!

Very cool.

I think you're posts look quicker now.

Tony2046 · Nov 19, 2017

Ivan said:
Bill Belichick started the Patriots Dynasty, and with Brady he has maintained it for almost two decades.

One strange play doesn’t create 18 years of consistently exceptional success.

Although the Butt Fumble might have started a new level of Suck-asty.

DarrylS · Nov 19, 2017

Soliel said:
I disagree with this idea. It’s like saying Montana got a holding call in the nfc championship game before ever winning a ring and that’s how the 49ers started. It’s convolluted. The dynasty began in three ways.

One. Belichick becomes coach.
Two. Brady drafted.
Three. Puzzle pieces fall into place.

Rules and penalties don’t create huge dynasties.

Preamble: The Patriots dynasty began when Bob Kraft purchased the NEP and learned his lesson after the Parcells fiasco and Pete Carroll "laidbackness" to hire a coach who he could trust with personnel matters..

Wordsmyth · Nov 19, 2017

There's a bonafide reason they're the Chokeland Faders.

1960Pats · Nov 19, 2017

Until Brady was robbed of four games in 2014, 1976 was the worst theft and the most violated I felt as a Pats fan.

Another key time in the 2001 Snow Bowl came after the tuck call. The Raiders had the ball with a 2nd and 1 and a chance to ice the game and failed on both tries.

I remember the great run in 1985 and the Raiders win was the sweetest, even up against he Jete and Dolphins wins. If I remember correctly our ST's scored a few TD's during that run.

After the Pats won in 2004 they were dead even with Oakland in playoff and SB wins. Since then they've been blown out by B&B.

Just whine baby!

PatsWickedPissah · Nov 19, 2017

upstater1 said:
Without the tuck rule, the Patriots don't even play the Raiders in the playoffs. The Jets beat the Patriots after this was ruled a fumble, then overturned because of the tuck rule:

I was AT that game. It was THE game after the week hiatus because of 9/11. Andruzzi's fireperson brother and FDNY fellows were there. We could not hear any explicatory announcement after the fumble recovery and my immediate reaction in the stands was that the bleeping refs had jobbed us as I had clearly seen the fumble & recovery. Figured it was a BS unwarranted quick whistle call. Read about the Tuck Rule in the papers* sports pages afterwards.

I was at 2001 summer camp a lot and was of the strong opinion that this Brady fellow whom I had not noticed at the previous year's training camp was outplaying Drew every series. But when Mo Lewis started the Dynasty with his hit on Bledsoe, I forgot everything about camp and turned to my companions saying, "We're oh and two. The season's ovah!"

But I quickly resumed my Brady's Ladies position the very next game watching Tommy Boy smoke the hated Colts in his first start.

* Even with the nascent WWW, people read actual newspapers back then. Really, they did.

Actual Pats Fan · Nov 19, 2017

scott99 said:
Sugar Bear Hamilton’s roughing the passer penalty started the Raider’s Dynasty (76-84).

Dreith travesty

Actual Pats Fan · Nov 19, 2017

TheBostonStraggler said:
think

Thanks again

oldrover said:
I don't believe I ever knew that!!!!

Wow...

...this changes...

...actually it changes nothing... but I thought it was a cool gif.

Mr. Tuck Rule, Ray Lewis, killed a guy.

“The Tuck Rule started the Patriots dynasty”

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