JG trade story: Patriots tried

SEA_Pat said:

Absolutely correct. On the other hand, just like the Steelers seem to have an ability to out-scout other teams with respect to Wide Receivers, we seem to have an ability to identify actual NFL QBs that other teams do not. How many ex-backups of ours have managed to get picked up and play as starters on other teams? How many highly prized and more highly drafted guys came before Jacoby and Jimmy and how many of them are still starters in this league?

So I'm okay with Brady and whatever comes next. Sure, would have been nice to keep Jimmy G as the heir apparent, but he wasn't going to go with that, so it's onto Brian Hoyer and the Playoffs.

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If I'm not wrong, we are going to have a total of six who have started a game.

SEA_Pat said:

Absolutely correct. On the other hand, just like the Steelers seem to have an ability to out-scout other teams with respect to Wide Receivers, we seem to have an ability to identify actual NFL QBs that other teams do not. How many ex-backups of ours have managed to get picked up and play as starters on other teams? How many highly prized and more highly drafted guys came before Jacoby and Jimmy and how many of them are still starters in this league?

So I'm okay with Brady and whatever comes next. Sure, would have been nice to keep Jimmy G as the heir apparent, but he wasn't going to go with that, so it's onto Brian Hoyer and the Playoffs.

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The following BB selected QBs have started(or will in JG's case) a game this year:
Tom Brady (GOAT)
Matt Cassel ( former pro-bowler)
Brian Hoyer (Most wins by a Browns' QB in the last 10 years)
Jacoby Brissett
JG

And there is still a chance for Ryan Mallet, especially with Flacco's concussion.

Seems like BB has a pretty good record with selecting QBs.

Froob said:

Browns didn’t offer the 13th pick or any first round pick.

Browns front office is difficult to work with.

It was going to be incredibly difficult to re-sign Jimmy since Brady has the same agent and it’d be a conflict of interest.

Simmons thinks maybe BB promised Don Yee that they’d wait to see if Brady is still the same guy and then deal Jimmy at the deadline.

Expect Hoyer on a two year deal, he’d have been part of the trade but his contract guarantees were complicated.

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Thanks for the info!

QuantumMechanic said:

Thanks for the info!

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Nada problem.

I guess no one will ever know the full story. And what a mediot claims to know is always subject to question.

I think BB probably came as close to the truth as we'll get when he said yesterday that they decided the pats couldn't sustain two eight figure salaries for QB's and they strung it out as long as they could.

This article suggests that Garoppolo's desire to get a shot at starting before or just after his Rookie contract expired also played a role in the equation. That's very believable, but, as honorable as doing so might have been, it's not what BB said.

Whatever the full story might be, one thing is certain: those who argued passionately that Brady could carry the team for 1--3 or more seasons at a high level into his 40's have had their aspiration become reality. There is no longer a middle ground and we will all know how it turns out.

Froob said:

Browns didn’t offer the 13th pick or any first round pick.

Browns front office is difficult to work with.

It was going to be incredibly difficult to re-sign Jimmy since Brady has the same agent and it’d be a conflict of interest.

Simmons thinks maybe BB promised Don Yee that they’d wait to see if Brady is still the same guy and then deal Jimmy at the deadline.

Expect Hoyer on a two year deal, he’d have been part of the trade but his contract guarantees were complicated.

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Plus, Lombardi thinks that BB has real affection for JimmyG and did him a favor by trading him to the best quarterback developer/whisperer in the game today in Kyle Shanahan, who worked miracles with developing Kirk Cousins at Washington, Matt Schaub at Houston. And, that is before he turned Matt Ryan into a MVP last year in Atlanta.

Deus Irae said:

Phillip Rivers has been a top 10 QB for most of his career.

How many SB titles has he won?


Tony Romo was often touted as a top 5 QB.

How many Lombardis did he bring home for the Cowboys?


Andrew Luck was the next sure thing. He'll be 29 next season, and is having problems recovering from a shoulder injury.

How many SB rings has he garnered?


Tom Brady, on the other hand, has won 2 SBs just in the last two seasons. That's as many as any other current QB (Eli, Roethlisberger) for their entire careers to date, one more than the next best current QB (Aaron Rodgers) has in his entire career to date, and as many as Peyton won in his entire career.

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It's hard not to argue that there is something unique about Brady. Unless he has something up his sleeve (not impossible), BB is clearly betting this season and probably at least next season both on his uniqueness and his ability to stay healthy.

Froob said:

This is a great listen with Lombardi and Simmons who have some inside info

The Ringer NFL Show by The Ringer on Apple Podcasts

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Ended up listening to all of this. It was great.
But man Lombardi loves Jimmy G. He wouldn't even admit that the Pats wouldn't win the SB with Jimmy (I think he may have been able to win prior to the defense not showing up and all the injuries).
He also had to thrown in there that he thinks Cooks would be better with Jimmy (not sure about that).
It really does seem like Lombardi would rather have Jimmy than Brady (with Bill and Tate giving him crap about it).
Overall, great listen and I highly recommend it.

dafoe2016 said:

No, you don't get it man. I never even mentioned Cleveland. Your argument would make sense only if they were the exception. They aren't. They are the rule. Most teams struggle for years, or even decades to find a decent QB. There is no reason to think that the Patriots are somehow immune to that. It is essentially pure luck. I'm not sure you understand the law of averages.

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Bullsh1t. The JETE have had at least a half-dozen franchise QBs during the time we’ve only managed to find ONE

PatsFanInVa said:

Bullsh1t. The JETE have had at least a half-dozen franchise QBs during the time we’ve only managed to find ONE

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With 6 potentially starting this weekend I'd say its more than luck at play here. The pats can recognize qb talent and coach it up to adequately play games.

Bill Lee said:

I think you've broken the irony meter.

Wikipedia ( Law of averages - Wikipedia ) tells us:

And:

The last sentence is operative -- the probability distribution is indeed biased, because not everyone is equal at evaluating talent. Picking quarterbacks is not flipping coins.

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Yes, I used the wrong phrase. Brian fart. It does not invalidate my argument. You know what my point was. If Bill and the Pats are so much better at evaluating QB talent than the rest of the league at least one of the QB's they drafted over the last 17 years would have gone on to have moderate success somewhere else, no? Yet that has not happened. Turns out their track record at drafting QBs in round 2 or later is about the same as the rest of league. Somehow it will be better in the bottom of round one before they bottom out and start picking in the top ten again? Which is still basically a crapshoot. They are QB drafting geniuses yet waited until round 6 to use a throwaway pick on the GOAT after picking six JAGS and flat out busts. You make no sense.

The delusional arrogance to think that somehow the Patriots will just magically, effortlessly pluck a competent starting QB out of the college ranks once Brady finishes, even thought it is the hardest thing to do in football, is a perfect example of why so many people hate us. Sure, jealousy is a big reason. But a close second is the insufferable arrogance and delusion of our fan base. We are turning in the 1990s Yankees fan base.

Brian Fart

Angelpats said:

With 6 potentially starting this weekend I'd say its more than luck at play here. The pats can recognize qb talent and coach it up to adequately play games.

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The Colts would agree

long distance said:

...Here an inside story by Breer...

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captain stone said:

Sorry, but this is where I stopped reading.

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Don't apologize for being smart!

dafoe2016 said:

The delusional arrogance to think that somehow the Patriots will just magically, effortlessly pluck a competent starting QB out of the college ranks once Brady finishes, even thought it is the hardest thing to do in football, is a perfect example of why so many people hate us. Sure, jealousy is a big reason. But a close second is the insufferable arrogance and delusion of our fan base. We are turning in the 1990s Yankees fan base.

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I generally agree with this post. We just traded away a QB who our coaching staff thought very highly of. There is no guarantee that we find a new one.

dafoe2016 said:

If Bill and the Pats are so much better at evaluating QB talent than the rest of the league at least one of the QB's they drafted over the last 17 years would have gone on to have moderate success somewhere else, no? Yet that has not happened. Turns out their track record at drafting QBs in round 2 or later is about the same as the rest of league. Somehow it will be better in the bottom of round one before they bottom out and start picking in the top ten again? Which is still basically a crapshoot. They are QB drafting geniuses yet waited until round 6 to use a throwaway pick on the GOAT after picking six JAGS and flat out busts. You make no sense.

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I think your overstate your case on this however. It seems like the previous QB picks did have decent success in the NFL. Former Brady back-ups have been taking snaps for many different teams. As far as I know, no other modern HC/FO has created so many NFL capable QBs. Perhaps some of these back-ups could have excelled if put in a situation that maximized their strengths.

I also think one has to consider if the previous Brady back-ups were drafted as potential future franchise QBs like Jimmy was. Perhaps we can have some confidence that BB could find and develop a similar QB if used sufficient draft capital.

I do agree that we should not expect a new 6th round Brady*. I am also deeply sympathetic with Lombardi's read on the whole situation.

dafoe2016 said:

If Bill and the Pats are so much better at evaluating QB talent than the rest of the league at least one of the QB's they drafted over the last 17 years would have gone on to have moderate success somewhere else, no? Yet that has not happened. Turns out their track record at drafting QBs in round 2 or later is about the same as the rest of league. Somehow it will be better in the bottom of round one before they bottom out and start picking in the top ten again? Which is still basically a crapshoot. They are QB drafting geniuses yet waited until round 6 to use a throwaway pick on the GOAT after picking six JAGS and flat out busts. You make no sense.

The delusional arrogance to think that somehow the Patriots will just magically, effortlessly pluck a competent starting QB out of the college ranks once Brady finishes, even thought it is the hardest thing to do in football, is a perfect example of why so many people hate us. Sure, jealousy is a big reason. But a close second is the insufferable arrogance and delusion of our fan base. We are turning in the 1990s Yankees fan base.

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All I said was that picking quarterbacks is based on skill as opposed to luck.

I really don't trust people who need to exaggerate to make their points.

Another symptom of the "hot take" era, so it seems.

dafoe2016 said:

Yes, I used the wrong phrase. Brian fart. It does not invalidate my argument. You know what my point was. If Bill and the Pats are so much better at evaluating QB talent than the rest of the league at least one of the QB's they drafted over the last 17 years would have gone on to have moderate success somewhere else, no? Yet that has not happened. Turns out their track record at drafting QBs in round 2 or later is about the same as the rest of league. Somehow it will be better in the bottom of round one before they bottom out and start picking in the top ten again? Which is still basically a crapshoot. They are QB drafting geniuses yet waited until round 6 to use a throwaway pick on the GOAT after picking six JAGS and flat out busts. You make no sense.

The delusional arrogance to think that somehow the Patriots will just magically, effortlessly pluck a competent starting QB out of the college ranks once Brady finishes, even thought it is the hardest thing to do in football, is a perfect example of why so many people hate us. Sure, jealousy is a big reason. But a close second is the insufferable arrogance and delusion of our fan base. We are turning in the 1990s Yankees fan base.

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I agree with most of this post. But I have a question: isn't it also a little arrogant to believe that Jimmy G is the next Brady or even the next Rodgers?
I mean Jimmy definitely looks like he can be a starting QB in the NFL, but the feel from reading some of the articles and posts is that the Pats just traded a sure fire Canton bound QB that will play for the next 10-15 years. He has only really played about 6 quarters and some mop-up time.
Today is Jimmy's 26th birthday and I am happy that he will finally get a chance to start. In a different world, perhaps he would have been starting for the Pats. I wish him the best and there is no shame in not beating out TB12.
The truth is I am not sure anyone knows how this will turn out until the draft pick is used and both Brady and Jimmy finish their respective careers.
I think the only thing I can state with almost 100% certainty is that TB12 is better than Jimmy right now or BB would not have traded him.

Angelpats said:

With 6 potentially starting this weekend I'd say its more than luck at play here. The pats can recognize qb talent and coach it up to adequately play games.

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The problem is only one plays well.

lancerman said:

Jimmy could be a really good franchise QB, and he might still only be 50% of what Brady was.

I'm sorry but you don't get rid of a guy who has been in 11 AFCCG's out of 16 (really 15 when you count the 08 injury) seasons. Who never had a losing season. Who has more Super Bowls than any QB ever. 2 years of that is greater potential than 15 years of Jimmy. I'm sorry.

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Plus I actually do believe that Brady keeps getting BETTER year after year.