Malcolm Butler as CB1 over Gilmore

skinnydog said:

I agree. I can’t see how all the blame gets laid on Gilmore. Yes, as a result of Gilmore being here many of the coverage responsibilities seem to have been modified. Nonetheless several players beyond Gilmore seem to have blown their coverage assignments in the first 6 games including Butler.

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One bad tire throws off the whole ride

OK

The presence of Gilmore has forced many players to play new roles. Several of the players haven't figured out their new responsibilities yet. We had one the best set of safeties in the NFL. Now, we have to evaluate them in new roles.

Our corners worked well together as a unit last year. Butler and Ryan started. When we had 3 corners out there, Ryan move inside and Rowe played outside.

Apparently, we haven't found a working system yet this year.

Belichick has decided that Gilmore is the future, and that rest of the secondary will change roles to accommodate him. OK.

To state the obvious, we might have been better off with an average #2 CB, who was good in the slot. Obviously, had we done that, we could have made Butler the player of the future, but that was really a different choice.
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As an aside, the defense was more vanilla against the jets. Bademosi and Butler played outside, and Jones was our inside corner, when Harmon wasn't the 5th DB on the field. With Bademosi playing his first defensive rep, with no practice, there were some hiccups, but fewer than we had been seeing.

skinnydog said:

I agree. I can’t see how all the blame gets laid on Gilmore. Yes, as a result of Gilmore being here many of the coverage responsibilities seem to have been modified. Nonetheless several players beyond Gilmore seem to have blown their coverage assignments in the first 6 games including Butler.

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Enough about Butler, where's the Big Money Man DMac? WTBleep has he done? I am serious. We passed on Demarius Thomas and Dez Bryant for this guy. Make an effin Play DMac. You got your Big Contract. Earn it....YOUVE BEEN ABSOLUTELY INVISIBLE....

Are there any members who cursed Butler in the game thread supporting him in this thread?

captain insano said:

so you think that McCourty would come out and blame or be critical of a fellow teammate in the press? you sound ridiculous lmao.

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When did I say that?
But McCourty isn't saying it was cover2 (which it looks like on the tape) and he screwed up if that's not what happened.

Deus Irae said:

Other then then whole "Gilmore hasn't grasped the defense" thing, of course.




I think he'll figure it out, but to say that there's no evidence he can't is absurd.

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Oh you mean the speculation.
Show me plays where he screwed up. Show me anything saying he isn't grasping the defense that isn't someone speculating and I'll accept it. But people guessing don't cut it for me.

The_Riddler said:

Enough about Butler, where's the Big Money Man DMac? WTBleep has he done? I am serious. We passed on Demarius Thomas and Dez Bryant for this guy. Make an effin Play DMac. You got your Big Contract. Earn it....YOUVE BEEN ABSOLUTELY INVISIBLE....

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Didn't he have a pick Sunday?

captain insano said:

i thought you said you dont name call?

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I don't. Saying anyone who thinks Gilmore sucked in the game he shut down Evans is an idiot isn't calling names unless there is actually a person out there who thinks that but how could there be?

skinnydog said:

I agree. I can’t see how all the blame gets laid on Gilmore. Yes, as a result of Gilmore being here many of the coverage responsibilities seem to have been modified. Nonetheless several players beyond Gilmore seem to have blown their coverage assignments in the first 6 games including Butler.

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I'm perfectly willing to accept it's Gilmore if you show me where Gilmore is at fault. I'm perfectly willing to accept it's McCourty, Rowe or whoever if you show me.
My issue is people who do not know who blew the coverage name Gilmore and that creates an undeserved reputation.

11 players go one way and Carolina screens back the other way. Gilmore is blamed. Rowe is pointed on Benjamin in a bunch (mayo had explained that the one constant in a bunch is the defender pointed on the middle man has him) he goes free and everyone blames Gilmore. Hill gets a wide open TD with Gilmore playing cover 2 and McCourty nowhere to be seen. McCourty says it was cover2 and on him. Gilmore gets blamed. Take those away, or even recognize it's likely they may not be his fault and what examples are left that he was the "communication" or blown coverage cause?

If it clearly was him he deserves to be ripped but he doesn't deserve to be ripped because no one k it's ehose fault it was so they decide to pick him with no legitimate reason to.

AndyJohnson said:

I'm perfectly willing to accept it's Gilmore if you show me where Gilmore is at fault. I'm perfectly willing to accept it's McCourty, Rowe or whoever if you show me.
My issue is people who do not know who blew the coverage name Gilmore and that creates an undeserved reputation.

11 players go one way and Carolina screens back the other way. Gilmore is blamed. Rowe is pointed on Benjamin in a bunch (mayo had explained that the one constant in a bunch is the defender pointed on the middle man has him) he goes free and everyone blames Gilmore. Hill gets a wide open TD with Gilmore playing cover 2 and McCourty nowhere to be seen. McCourty says it was cover2 and on him. Gilmore gets blamed. Take those away, or even recognize it's likely they may not be his fault and what examples are left that he was the "communication" or blown coverage cause?

If it clearly was him he deserves to be ripped but he doesn't deserve to be ripped because no one k it's ehose fault it was so they decide to pick him with no legitimate reason to.

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I agree entirely. It’s clear on all these plays that someone blew the coverage but not always possible to tell who blew the coverage without knowing all the coverage assignments. My view is it’s on the coaches. They should have started with basic coverages and added wrinkles as the secondary got used to playing with each other, but then I’m just a guy watching from my couch.

supafly said:

Pretty sure Butler was crossing his arms in the "incomplete sign" just to signify that he didn't believe that ASJ had gotten in the endzone.

If he really knew that it was going to be a touchback based on the fact that ASJ would bobble the ball and then not show full recovery until he was technically out of bounds, that's insane.

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then Belichick must be insane, because he reportedly related Butler telling him that on the sideline after the play when he was asked about it in the post-game presser.

n6249c said:

then Belichick must be insane, because he reportedly related Butler telling him that on the sideline after the play when he was asked about it in the post-game presser.

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We should all be going to Malcolm for stock tips if he has the ability to predict moments like the overturned call via replay. His initial reaction is clearly to point out that he doesn't believe that ASJ crossed the goal line.

He may have pointed out the fact that he helped jar the ball loose. Also, after the play they went to commercial break, where there had to be hints of them looking at something with officials talking, looking at the replay on the big screen, etc. Maybe he pointed something out, then.

AndyJohnson said:

You are aptly named

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then Belichick must be insane, because he reportedly related Butler telling him that on the sideline after the play when he was asked about it in the post-game presser.

I was going to ask what posts would look like when the team has a losing record. But, of course, we know the answer. You'll be long gone.

The team is within one game of having the best record in the NFL, even with all the injuries. Almost all those evaluating (guessing) at the strength of teams, has us in the top 10, many in the top 5. Most have us as being one of the top 5 most likely to win the Super Bowl, including the bettor at almost all sports books.

And yet, we whine, and whine, and whine.

Belichick, who doesn't really talk much, spent a lot of time in his tirades after the last game, reacting to all those criticizing the deficiencies in play of the first six games,

mgteich said:

OK

The presence of Gilmore has forced many players to play new roles. Several of the players haven't figured out their new responsibilities yet. We had one the best set of safeties in the NFL. Now, we have to evaluate them in new roles.

Our corners worked well together as a unit last year. Butler and Ryan started. When we had 3 corners out there, Ryan move inside and Rowe played outside.

Apparently, we haven't found a working system yet this year.

Belichick has decided that Gilmore is the future, and that rest of the secondary will change roles to accommodate him. OK.

To state the obvious, we might have been better off with an average #2 CB, who was good in the slot. Obviously, had we done that, we could have made Butler the player of the future, but that was really a different choice.
======
As an aside, the defense was more vanilla against the jets. Bademosi and Butler played outside, and Jones was our inside corner, when Harmon wasn't the 5th DB on the field. With Bademosi playing his first defensive rep, with no practice, there were some hiccups, but fewer than we had been seeing.

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Nice summary

Great defense shutting down Atlanta for 55 minutes. All without Gilmore again and no Rowe.
Entire Defense played excellent with Butler as CB1.
Sometimes low awareness players like Gilmore, are a bad fit, not unlike Adalius Thomas or Haynsworth signings.

I thought this was the best game of the season for Gilmore. No missed coverages and much better chemistry from the rest of the defense than the first six games. Maybe he's finally found his role.

mgteich said:

OK

The presence of Gilmore has forced many players to play new roles. Several of the players haven't figured out their new responsibilities yet. We had one the best set of safeties in the NFL. Now, we have to evaluate them in new roles.

Our corners worked well together as a unit last year. Butler and Ryan started. When we had 3 corners out there, Ryan move inside and Rowe played outside.

Apparently, we haven't found a working system yet this year.

Belichick has decided that Gilmore is the future, and that rest of the secondary will change roles to accommodate him. OK.

To state the obvious, we might have been better off with an average #2 CB, who was good in the slot. Obviously, had we done that, we could have made Butler the player of the future, but that was really a different choice.
======
As an aside, the defense was more vanilla against the jets. Bademosi and Butler played outside, and Jones was our inside corner, when Harmon wasn't the 5th DB on the field. With Bademosi playing his first defensive rep, with no practice, there were some hiccups, but fewer than we had been seeing.

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You are right the secondary has been better but what you started at the start of this speaks volumes about the defense. Theres a big problem when the whole secondary has to adjust their roles just to accommodate one guy. The results are speaking for themselves now, big play city has become a ghost town.

Angelpats said:

You are right the secondary has been better but what you started at the start of this speaks volumes about the defense. Theres a big problem when the whole secondary has to adjust their roles just to accommodate one guy. The results are speaking for themselves now, big play city has become a ghost town.

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Yes.
1. If the Pats D (which has won 2Superbowls with Butler) continues to play great like it did tonight, and the defense continues to play disjointed with Gilmore, at what point does the team pull the plug (more like reduce his role) on Gilmore.

Butler was a force everywhere on the field. I would love to see Butler signed and for a Gilmore to fulfill his potential, it will allow our defense to play more aggressively and lead to more turnovers