Grogan and the 76 Pats

oldrover · Oct 5, 2017

patsfaninpa said:
Mike Haynes had an incredible rookie year. I believe Howard Cosell had him as his NFL MVP not ROY.

Haynes was awesome in 1976... 2 punts returned for TD's, 3 fumble recoveries, and EIGHT interceptions. Teams thought they could pick on the rookie.

They had it backwards.

Actual Pats Fan · Oct 5, 2017

DarrylS said:
Never quite understand why the Patriots never posthumously put Stingley in their HOF

Kraft has never done anything to honor this team, skipping anniversaries of the greatest Patriots team not quarterbacked by Tom Brady.

Every speech he makes usually begins, "Since 1994," blah blah blah.

Which would be fine if we were the Ravens, or Texans.

sean10mm · Oct 5, 2017

Actual Pats Fan said:
Kraft has never done anything to honor this team, skipping anniversaries of the greatest Patriots team not quarterbacked by Tom Brady.

Every speech he makes usually begins, "Since 1994," blah blah blah.

Which would be fine if we were the Ravens, or Texans.

Uh they put Sam Cunningham in the Patriots HOF in 2010, Steve Grogan in 1995,
Mike Haynes in 1994 (not sure if it was technically pre or post Kraft on this one).

Hannah and Nelson were already in when Kraft bought the team, so he obviously couldn't re-induct them or something.

DarrylS · Oct 5, 2017

Actual Pats Fan said:
Kraft has never done anything to honor this team, skipping anniversaries of the greatest Patriots team not quarterbacked by Tom Brady.

Every speech he makes usually begins, "Since 1994," blah blah blah.

Which would be fine if we were the Ravens, or Texans.

Not true Steve Nelson, Steve Grogan, John Hannah,Sam Cunningham and Mike Haynes are already in the Pats HOF... don't put it on Kraft.

There is a HOF selection committee which the fans then vote on ..

Selection Process and Committee | The Hall at Patriot Place

None of this explains why Stingley has been left out..

reflexblue · Oct 5, 2017

QuantumMechanic said:
Can someone fix the title? It's driving me crazy!

You mean the 'GrogRan' part ?

mosslost · Oct 6, 2017

sorry I typo'd Grogan!

mosslost · Oct 6, 2017

patsfaninpa said:
I ask people that trivia question and have never received the correct answer. Back to 76. Mike Haynes had an incredible rookie year. I believe Howard Cosell had him as his NFL MVP not ROY.

Cosell considered the Pats offense revolutionary in those years

mosslost · Oct 6, 2017

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:
Solid thread, from a person who started a thread called "We have basically clinched the bye week already (Seed 2 minimum)" and touted his math skills, saying that the rest of us just could not understand it!

Still true.

scott99 · Oct 6, 2017

Horace's Ivories said:
Moved back from Europe to Stamford CT in 1976 - hadn't watched football in 3 years. I decided all of CT was "part of New England" and became a die hard fan after the playoff loss. Loved Grogan, Francis, Stingley, the backs, Nelson etc

Was a massive Steve Nelson fan, very underrated middle linebacker (ILB on our 3-4 D) during the era of Lambert, Gradishar, Bergey etc.

Huge Russ Francis fan as well. Howard Cosell used to call him All-World. Not the statistics of the greats of those days (mostly a running team in 1976), but Francis dominated in other ways too.

Sam Bam Cunningham, Andy Johnson, Don Calhoun, loved those guys too. And of course Daryl Stingley (**** you Jack Tatum).

Actual Pats Fan · Oct 6, 2017

DarrylS said:
Not true Steve Nelson, Steve Grogan, John Hannah,Sam Cunningham and Mike Haynes are already in the Pats HOF... don't put it on Kraft.

There is a HOF selection committee which the fans then vote on ..

Selection Process and Committee | The Hall at Patriot Place

None of this explains why Stingley has been left out..

Kraft is the owner of the team.

He could induct Christian Peter into the HOF if he wants to.

He has done nothing improve/fix the system for selection.

In 2001, the 25th anniversary of that historically great team, and in 2016, the 40th, he did nothing.

DarrylS · Oct 7, 2017

Actual Pats Fan said:
Kraft is the owner of the team.

He could induct Christian Peter into the HOF if he wants to.

He has done nothing improve/fix the system for selection.

In 2001, the 25th anniversary of that historically great team, and in 2016, the 40th, he did nothing.

What specifically do you want him to do?? How can he improve the system for selection?? If he emasculates the current selection committee it may further sully the reputation and process of the relatively diverse group who select current. IMO he wants the process to look relatively "fair"...

I have no issue with who they have selected, just can never figure out why Darryl Stingley is never given much, if any consideration. There are a group of fans who need to find fault with whatever Mr.Kraft does.. or he could always do it somehow better.

DaBronxPats14 · Oct 7, 2017

QuantumMechanic said:
And in 1978 NE set the still-standing NFL single-season rushing record with 3165 yd. The main rushers were:
Sam Cunningham- 768, 8 TD
Horace Ivory - 693, 11 TD
Andy Johnson - 675, 3 TD
Steve Grogan - 539, 5 TD
Don Calhoun - 391, 1 TD

(They also had 2800 net passing yards.)

Yup, and when I talked to Grogan couple of years ago at his store he said that his 1978 team should have won SB that year it was his best team he played on.

Actual Pats Fan · Oct 7, 2017

DarrylS said:
What specifically do you want him to do?? How can he improve the system for selection?? If he emasculates the current selection committee it may further sully the reputation and process of the relatively diverse group who select current. IMO he wants the process to look relatively "fair"...

I have no issue with who they have selected, just can never figure out why Darryl Stingley is never given much, if any consideration. There are a group of fans who need to find fault with whatever Mr.Kraft does.. or he could always do it somehow better.

I think I speak for all Patriots fans when I say we are all grateful for Bob Kraft purchasing the team, keeping it right here in Foxborough, and building CMGI Field/Gillette Stadium.

And I was very happy that he decided to hire Bill Belichick - amidst tangible discouragement from people and the Jets and the league - even before Tom Brady ever started.

Like all of us, he's human, and not perfect. He has the right to remain forever beholden to Roger Goodell and the flying elvis for whatever insane personal reasons; but we as the team's fans also have the right to protect the players and coaches we root for from defamation, degradation, libel, blasphemy, derision and corrupt bias including that which exists solely to diminish and/or qualify our on field accomplishments; and worse, that which spills over directly onto the playing field, removing fair play, exemplified most tragically in that game on December 18, 1976. Yes, Dreith and his crew personally acted in the belief that the Patriots didn't "belong" there.

No, I do not think it's intentional on his part, but Kraft has absolutely encouraged degradation of and contempt for the Patriots, along with ignorance of the team's illustrious on-field history prior to his purchase.

DaBronxPats14 · Oct 7, 2017

Actual Pats Fan said:
I think I speak for all Patriots fans when I say we are all grateful for Bob Kraft purchasing the team, keeping it right here in Foxborough, and building CMGI Field/Gillette Stadium.

When Pats were thinking about leaving NE were those other locations that was talked about St. Louis & CT?

DarrylS · Oct 8, 2017

Actual Pats Fan said:
I think I speak for all Patriots fans when I say we are all grateful for Bob Kraft purchasing the team, keeping it right here in Foxborough, and building CMGI Field/Gillette Stadium.

And I was very happy that he decided to hire Bill Belichick - amidst tangible discouragement from people and the Jets and the league - even before Tom Brady ever started.

Like all of us, he's human, and not perfect. He has the right to remain forever beholden to Roger Goodell and the flying elvis for whatever insane personal reasons; but we as the team's fans also have the right to protect the players and coaches we root for from defamation, degradation, libel, blasphemy, derision and corrupt bias including that which exists solely to diminish and/or qualify our on field accomplishments; and worse, that which spills over directly onto the playing field, removing fair play, exemplified most tragically in that game on December 18, 1976. Yes, Dreith and his crew personally acted in the belief that the Patriots didn't "belong" there.

No, I do not think it's intentional on his part, but Kraft has absolutely encouraged degradation of and contempt for the Patriots, along with ignorance of the team's illustrious on-field history prior to his purchase.

Do not think he is beholden to Roger Goodell as much as he is to the other "31" and the Corporate part of the NFL who together have all increased their wealth dramatically, this is a business for him not a hobby.. Kraft seems to say whatever he needs to say out of the limelight and does not seek to be the main focus. Jerry Jones is more vocal, but he is also the GM of the Cowboys.... not sure how much being vocal effects decision making by Goodell and his minions..

Have never seen any evidence to show that Ben Dreith acted in the belief that the Patriots did not belong there, it was a crappy call that affected the outcome.. otoh the Patriots fell apart after that call, and crapped the bed. The Patriots were also used to losing games, while the Raiders less so.. as good as they were, they needed a winning mentality.

Actual Pats Fan · Oct 8, 2017

DarrylS said:
Do not think he is beholden to Roger Goodell as much as he is to the other "31" and the Corporate part of the NFL who together have all increased their wealth dramatically, this is a business for him not a hobby.. Kraft seems to say whatever he needs to say out of the limelight and does not seek to be the main focus. Jerry Jones is more vocal, but he is also the GM of the Cowboys.... not sure how much being vocal effects decision making by Goodell and his minions..

Have never seen any evidence to show that Ben Dreith acted in the belief that the Patriots did not belong there, it was a crappy call that affected the outcome.. otoh the Patriots fell apart after that call, and crapped the bed. The Patriots were also used to losing games, while the Raiders less so.. as good as they were, they needed a winning mentality.

The Patriots of 1976 had a winning mentality.

The Raiders meanwhile were the same crybabies they are today, sniveling about the immaculate reception etc.

The whole game was skewed in the Raiders' favor; and Dreith made sure down the stretch that he did everything possible to award the game to Oakland.

Oblivious to the misplaced down marker on the sideline which Sam Cunningham ran to, thinking he had the first down...Villapiano's mugging of Francis as the ball bounced between the "8" and the "1" on his jersey, again preventing the clinching first down. By the time we did "fall apart," the Raiders were already at the four yard line, when Prentice McCray protested the biased generous spot on the previous play.

Dreith is responsible for this mess, and even if you subtract the phony roughing the passer call, the Patriots would have won the game - and the title - in spite of him.

Actual Pats Fan · Oct 8, 2017

DaBronxPats14 said:
When Pats were thinking about leaving NE were those other locations that was talked about St. Louis & CT?

From the very second James Busch Orthwein was assigned by the NFL to purchase the Patriots, he shared their opinion of the Patriots being a "national embarrassment" and "broken and ridiculed"; and he intended to move the team to St. Louis (he even had helmets made up for the new, moved team) right up unitl Bob Kraft overpaid him by $50 million to get out of town.

Kraft set up an arrangement for a stadium and facility to be built in Hartford, but cost projections turned out to be low enough that he was able to pull out of the deal. Local politicians did become more amenable to the NFL staying here, but Kraft used his own money to build the stadium.

DarrylS · Oct 9, 2017

Actual Pats Fan said:
The Patriots of 1976 had a winning mentality.

The Raiders meanwhile were the same crybabies they are today, sniveling about the immaculate reception etc.

The whole game was skewed in the Raiders' favor; and Dreith made sure down the stretch that he did everything possible to award the game to Oakland.

Oblivious to the misplaced down marker on the sideline which Sam Cunningham ran to, thinking he had the first down...Villapiano's mugging of Francis as the ball bounced between the "8" and the "1" on his jersey, again preventing the clinching first down. By the time we did "fall apart," the Raiders were already at the four yard line, when Prentice McCray protested the biased generous spot on the previous play.

Dreith is responsible for this mess, and even if you subtract the phony roughing the passer call, the Patriots would have won the game - and the title - in spite of him.

As much as I agree with the phony call, your evidence is still conjecture and devoid of any facts..

Perhaps being a "crybaby" is the formula for success for some teams, not my preference.. IMO really good teams with winning mentalities overcome the ineptitude of the refs.. bottom line is they pretty much fell apart after the phantom roughing the passer penalty.

Les archambeau · Oct 9, 2017

DarrylS said:
As much as I agree with the phony call, your evidence is still conjecture and devoid of any facts..

Perhaps being a "crybaby" is the formula for success for some teams, not my preference.. IMO really good teams with winning mentalities overcome the ineptitude of the refs.. bottom line is they pretty much fell apart after the phantom roughing the passer penalty.

What did he say that was wrong? I remember watching this game, I was in my mid twenties so I know what was going on. Blatant pass interference not called at a crucial time in the game.

Les archambeau · Oct 9, 2017

Actual Pats Fan said:
The Patriots of 1976 had a winning mentality.

The Raiders meanwhile were the same crybabies they are today, sniveling about the immaculate reception etc.

The whole game was skewed in the Raiders' favor; and Dreith made sure down the stretch that he did everything possible to award the game to Oakland.

Oblivious to the misplaced down marker on the sideline which Sam Cunningham ran to, thinking he had the first down...Villapiano's mugging of Francis as the ball bounced between the "8" and the "1" on his jersey, again preventing the clinching first down. By the time we did "fall apart," the Raiders were already at the four yard line, when Prentice McCray protested the biased generous spot on the previous play.

Dreith is responsible for this mess, and even if you subtract the phony roughing the passer call, the Patriots would have won the game - and the title - in spite of him.

And that my friends is the "rest of the story". Disagree?, ask Tim Fox, he was there!

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