If Chung Is The Issue

Clearly, many think that the "problem" is Gilmore, and perhaps a new set of roles to accommodate him.

If the change in roles is because of Gilmore replacing Ryan, then the safeties needn't be involved. We would need to see who played Ryan's nickel reps (Butler or Jones). Harmon could take a few more reps as the nickel, but that isn't a major change.

IF THE ISSUE IS CHUNG
As folks have pointed out here, the change isn't that simple. Chung's reps have been decreasing, apparently because of performance. It seems that Richards isn't good enough as a backup strong safety to have him replace Chung in that role (we don't have a next man up at strong safety)

The issue is bad enough to try to move McCourty to SS. This is a MAJOR change. Harmon is a fine free safety, but then he can't pay his 2016 reps in the nickel, and he is no McCourty. As was the case with corner, it isn't clear if McCourty is even an adequate strong safety. In any case, the secondary is much weaker without having a probowl safety.

CHOICES
1) Continue with the new roles, expecting McCourty to become a top strong safety.
2) Start Richards at strong safety.
3) Start Harmon at strong safety (a really bad idea IMHO)
4) Move Chung back to strong safety, and figure out how to make up for his decrease in performance. His role would be greatly reduced from 2016.
5) Pick up a backup strong safety who might eventually replace Chung, or even be a backup (apparently we don't have a backup SS). This player could be a special teamer who is a better SS than Richards. Many of us have been asking for this foe months.
6) Trade for a strong safety, hoping that he would fit in for the second half of the season.

In the short term, my guess is that #4 is the best option.

2) Start Richards at strong safety.

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I stopped reading right there...you can't be serious.

PatsFan2 said:

I stopped reading right there...you can't be serious.

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I agree. However, if Richards is not a backup strong safety, why is he on the team? Clearly, we had enough cap money to replace him in the offseason or pre-season.

mgteich said:

I agree. However, if Richards is not a backup strong safety, why is he on the team? Clearly, we had enough cap money to replace him in the offseason or pre-season.

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There is quite a few guys on this Team I have issues with but that's why they give BB the Big bucks.

what happened week 1, was it different than last year w/ respect to chungs snap count and position?

I hadn't realized we had made changes w/ the safeties at all

if so...you go to the closest thing we had last year, all positions the same, and just get the CBs in line w/ the matchups you want so everyone baselines what they understand, then after having that you can move to taking away guys whose performance has fallen (chung, etc)

we need to get to a point where defense gives up plays but at least contests to their ability, rather than do to blows in asignments

Someone tell me again why we gave Chung a re-worked salary bump this offseason?

Run a damn 4-2-5 with corners playing man. Your nickel on their slot. McCourty on TE. Harmon playing deep on together WR.

Hightower and Van Noy at LB. If getting run on, brig Harris in. If E Roberts not healthy. It ain’t rocket science

ALP said:

what happened week 1, was it different than last year w/ respect to chungs snap count and position?

I hadn't realized we had made changes w/ the safeties at all

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McCourty has been playing a lot of strong safety. He needs to move back to free safety.

Gilmore needs to look and play like he cares. This ain’t Buffalo son.

If Ebner is finally healthy he might get reps at backup SS. At least, unlike Richards, he is athletic enough.

Biffins said:

Someone tell me again why we gave Chung a re-worked salary bump this offseason?

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Imo.

Chung is being used differently this season. I think they were trying to somehow find someone to play the star linebacker effectively which is a DB/LB hybrid type guy. I'm not sure though.

But last season Chung was good to great as a SS. Great in run protection and good picking up TE's and occasionally the RB out of the backfield. He made some solid plays from the SS position.

This year I don't know if he's regressed or if this whole jumble of issues makes him look bad. Tough for me to tell.

I would sooner see Marquise Flowers at SS than Richards, he played a bit of safety in college didn't he?

What about getting rid of Richards and trying one of the practice squad DBs? We have D. Travis and D. Jones on the PS

I'll be feeling much better about all this, shortly...

oldrover said:

I'll be feeling much better about all this, shortly...

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I already am feeling pretty good

I was re-watching M.Flowers since he got significant number of snaps after Roberts went down. He is much weaker than Roberts vs run but he can cover and is fast, lateral and dropping.

He was lined up at “STAR“ (sort of) half of the time. He was the only one who had a couple of pefect coverages of TE ****son who was a huge factor in first half. He had one nice run stop close to LOS but he is not strong enough, can be pushed around and lost in traffic. Somehow it seems to not have the right attitude for trenches. He came in as liability in traffic as well which is strange given how well he plays in kicking game but that didn't show too bad on film. He is a good tackler though.

I was a bit disappointed they didn't give him a few snaps vs KC (i know he only arrived by then but he had a good game vs KC in preseason on Bengals and made a couple of great plays on theri RBs).

A melt of Roberts and M.Flowers would make a perfect LB for the slow Pats front 7. It will be interesting to see if he gets opportunity today when Harris and maybe also Langi are active.

I would be intrigued to see Langi cover RBs. He is the fastest LB on the team outside M.Flowers and is good in traffic plus brings attitude and power. I didn't really understand forcing him almost exclusively on the line in preseason because he could actually be the answer at line backer position. KVN on RBs like Kamara, McCaffrey is not a matchup you'd like Id guess..
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Lombardi argues the problem of Pats D is that is too slow and not as powerful as last year. Preferring bigger bodies in front 7 and sacrificing speed for power is ok. But this year vs last the power is not there.

btw - like last yr when he called out Collins and his snaps immediately declined, Branch was left home after showing again last Sunday that there is no power in his game this year (and even less speed)
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Here a reminder on a few notes on Flowers from STAR thread:
Jordan Richards . and STAR position

Obviously there isn't just one issue. The biggest issue to me though has been LB play. Everything else has been an issue as well but that particularly has been bad.

BobDigital said:

The biggest issue to me though has been LB play. Everything else has been an issue as well but that particularly has been bad.

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I completely agree. I believe that we are playing so many single high safety looks because our front 7 has been struggling. In game 2 we had Chung playing as a 3rd LB in Nickel situations (what I called the "4-3 Nickel"). We are also bitting hard on play action. All of this puts strain on the back end.

NE-VT said:

I completely agree. I believe that we are playing so many single high safety looks because our front 7 has been struggling. In game 2 we had Chung playing as a 3rd LB in Nickel situations (what I called the "4-3 Nickel"). We are also bitting hard on play action. All of this puts strain on the back end.

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I agree with that. I mean have the DBs given up big pass plays? Yes. Has our pass rush not gotten there soon enough? Yes. Have our DTs not stopped the run well enough? Yes. But in the end the LBs make everything worse.

Also of course just general bad luck and penalties have gone against the Patriots defense as well.

Offenses are not committing enough mistakes vs our D (penalties or drops)
Offenses are finding themselves in the right play too often to counter the D call.
Continually the screw ups on D are just enough every play instead of all on a few.
Also the D is making the worst mistakes at the worse times.
Calls going against the Pats that are 50/50 or less.

I am not trying to say it is bad luck or timing in itself but that has been against the Patriots as well.

mgteich said:

I agree. However, if Richards is not a backup strong safety, why is he on the team? Clearly, we had enough cap money to replace him in the offseason or pre-season.

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This will draw a lot of disagree and dislike ratings but I don't think Belichick is being sincere when he says that everything that he does is in the best interest of the team.

From Bequete to Tavon Wilson to Richards among others, it seems like some players he keeps on the roster for any other reason, to send a message that it's not all about talent, or to make it pretty clear who call the shots, him, which in consequence might benefit the locker room management long term and that would be in the best interest of the team but from a pure football talent standpoint some of those decisions are very questionable but who am I