BU makes major breakthrough on detecting CTE in the living

XLIX said:

Breakthrough? Based on recent discoveries, I have a CTE Test which can detect CTE with 99% accuracy:

Q: Do you play pro football? If yes, you have CTE.

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My apologies if that was a joke. Otherwise, let's talk about control groups and self selecting samples. Or do you wonder why most accidents are in the home.

Dr Pain said:

Wow this could be the thing that ends the game as we know it.

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I agree, when it works they might have things like a strike zone on defenseless receivers. If by "As we know it," you mean the Rodney Harrison days. Yeah, players like Merriweather must adapt or be out of the league in a few years.

If you mean like a 1912 Teddy Roosevelt making the NCAA (or whatever they were called then) institute the forward pass change, don't hold your breathe - that causes CTE.

The data are not impressive and not powered for the small difference detected. The level in the spinal fluid is nice but CCL11 can be altered in many conditions.

lurker1965 said:

My apologies if that was a joke. Otherwise, let's talk about control groups and self selecting samples. Or do you wonder why most accidents are in the home.



I agree, when it works they might have things like a strike zone on defenseless receivers. If by "As we know it," you mean the Rodney Harrison days. Yeah, players like Merriweather must adapt or be out of the league in a few years.

If you mean like a 1912 Teddy Roosevelt making the NCAA (or whatever they were called then) institute the forward pass change, don't hold your breathe - that causes CTE.

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I think it will be more of a tested in college and not allowed to play because of liability type issue. I think it will be more of I am a 25 year old NFL player who is just married and I tested positive for it. I think more young players in the NFL and college getting diagnosed means fewer people will let their children play.

In my fathers younger days, the 1930s and 40s, everyone boxed when they were young. Golden Gloves was huge. We will look back at football like this someday. How many of your kids boxed?

bormio said:

But this substance is not a drug - but a test to diagnose. But it would allow us to identify and study CTE patients while alive and make drug trials possible - but we are a long way from that. Our therapeutic arsenal in dementia is nearly worthless, believe me.

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I agree but for some of these pharma investment arms and VCs focused on biotech, the ability to fill a gap in the investment thesis is like bears to honey. Thats the first step in funding promising research which is what McKee and team have done.

Its the the equivalent of some dork in a dorm room at Harvard writing web-based app that allows students to lurk, post things about their day and send friend requests.

primetime said:

Maybe. I don't know why they didn't publish it in a high-impact journal though. Granted, PLOS One is pretty much the only reputable "open source" journal but it's hardly great.

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I'm not an expert but what little I know about the politics this seems rushed.

robertweathers said:

I agree but for some of these pharma investment arms and VCs focused on biotech, the ability to fill a gap in the investment thesis is like bears to honey. Thats the first step in funding promising research which is what McKee and team have done.

Its the the equivalent of some dork in a dorm room at Harvard writing web-based app that allows students to lurk, post things about their day and send friend requests.

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There certainly seems to be great business in developing biomarker assays for a companion diagnostic to treatments.

Finding a biomarker is great, the treatment though - haven't we known about tau protein accumulation in brain plaques for a while? I believe reduction of tau is a focus of Alzheimer's therapy studies.

bormio said:

This is the situation in families with Huntington's Chorea. Inherited with 50% chance of having. Symptoms do not show until late 20s and early 30s. Can test for it at any point - I believe many elect to not have the test (there is no treatment or prevention).

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Fingers crossed for a fast-arriving CRISPR therapy for Huntington's patients.

ForThoseAboutToRock said:

There certainly seems to be great business in developing biomarker assays for a companion diagnostic to treatments.

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Yep. Depending on the size of the market, biomarkers are interesting investments either as an IPO or acquisition by a player higher on the food chain.

These guys just raised 13.5m in an unrelated line of biomarker research.

IsoPlexis Raises $13.5 Million in Series B Financing

Keep in mind, if McKee and team are legit, BU gets a piece of the action.

ForThoseAboutToRock said:

Finding a biomarker is great, the treatment though - haven't we known about tau protein accumulation in brain plaques for a while? I believe reduction of tau is a focus of Alzheimer's therapy studies.

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Agree. My thinking is their work will lead to research to impede/stop/limit/regress the accumulation of tau. To be clear, I'm totally daydreaming here. Who the hell knows if this has legs. My only point is the market opportunity as a biomarker and/or as an augmentation to a larger drug/market play warrants a closer look

I gave myself CTE through repetitive convos about taking a knee

I went to BU. Decent school

lurker1965 said:

My apologies if that was a joke. Otherwise, let's talk about control groups and self selecting samples. Or do you wonder why most accidents are in the home.

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The 99% study contained 111 of 1,300 NFL players who died in the years brains were collected, and 110 had CTE. Even if not a single other NFL player who died in that time period had CTE, that's 9% - epidemic levels. And it's almost certainly far higher than that, even if we accept those 111 aren't representative of the remaining 1,200 or so because they or family members donated their brains because they exhibited symptoms and knew about the study.

ForThoseAboutToRock said:

There certainly seems to be great business in developing biomarker assays for a companion diagnostic to treatments.

Finding a biomarker is great, the treatment though - haven't we known about tau protein accumulation in brain plaques for a while? I believe reduction of tau is a focus of Alzheimer's therapy studies.

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Is a marker just that, a marker, or part of the pathophysiology? The eternal question. But even just a marker for CTE would be big.

Dr Pain said:

Wow this could be the thing that ends the game as we know it.

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There will another strike anyway because the NFLPA got taken to the cleaners on the last CBA.

as some people are saying, this will kill football...it wont

it will change it, and the quality of player will probably drop because people will actively avoid it

but there are people out there whose choices are 1. hell, or 2. chance of CTE w/ a real life in meantime...and they will always choose the latter, and I can't blame them, and I agree with them I think

primetime said:

The 99% study contained 111 of 1,300 NFL players who died in the years brains were collected, and 110 had CTE. Even if not a single other NFL player who died in that time period had CTE, that's 9% - epidemic levels. And it's almost certainly far higher than that, even if we accept those 111 aren't representative of the remaining 1,200 or so because they or family members donated their brains because they exhibited symptoms and knew about the study.

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The 20 something indestructible mentality, especially those with few other life choice options, sadly may mistakenly see 10:1 odds against CTE a chance worth taking, to make millions vs fast food industry. But truly epidemic level #s.

robertweathers said:

Knowing a thing or two about this industry.....they look for every opportunity to make money....

They are watching. Just gotta believe me.

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As someone with the actual job title of "Director of Medicinal Chemistry", though at a not-for-profit research institute rather than a big pharma company,

I quibble just a bit with that characterization.

I hunt for new targets where a drug might be used to help people. Yes, it would take a big pharma to take it to market due to huge clinical costs, and they love to make money, but that is not at all what drives basic research, even in drug discovery.

Yes, in pharma your work needs to have the potential for revenue to have the bosses let you keep working on it. In academia, though, I am my own boss. But still at some point I'd have to convince someone they could recoup development costs and then some.

It took three seconds before I thought about what experiments might define whether CL11 levels merely correlate with the disease (which is fine for detection) or if it is CAUSITIVE for the disease.

If it is causitive, then how?
Can we stop CL11 from being formed with a molecule?
Can we promote its clearance with a molecule?
Can we find what it binds to in order to prompt CTE and then block that binding with a molecule?

If it is causitive, any of those approaches can lead to a great new drug that yes probably makes some company a lot of money, but not necessarily the people who figured it all out.

Yes, 10,000 of us are on SciFinder and pubmed right now (after they get off patsfans! )

Most of those people just want to make a difference, and like me will still drive their 2005 Hondas rather than a 2017 Lambo!

By the way, at the National Meeting of the American Chemical Society in Boston next August, there is a half-day session in the medicinal chemistry program on the investigation of CTE pathology and the potential for therapeutic intervention.

Lots of people are already thinking about it, for sure. I helped plan the meeting just last month at this year's Washington meeting.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

As someone with the actual job title of "Director of Medicinal Chemistry", though at a not-for-profit research institute rather than a big pharma company,

I quibble just a bit with that characterization.

I hunt for new targets where a drug might be used to help people. Yes, it would take a big pharma to take it to market due to huge clinical costs, and they love to make money, but that is not at all what drives basic research, even in drug discovery.

Yes, in pharma your work needs to have the potential for revenue to have the bosses let you keep working on it. In academia, though, I am my own boss. But still at some point I'd have to convince someone they could recoup development costs and then some.

It took three seconds before I thought about what experiments might define whether CL11 levels merely correlate with the disease (which is fine for detection) or if it is CAUSITIVE for the disease.

If it is causitive, then how?
Can we stop CL11 from being formed with a molecule?
Can we promote its clearance with a molecule?
Can we find what it binds to in order to prompt CTE and then block that binding with a molecule?

If it is causitive, any of those approaches can lead to a great new drug that yes probably makes some company a lot of money, but not necessarily the people who figured it all out.

Yes, 10,000 of us are on SciFinder and pubmed right now (after they get off patsfans! )

Most of those people just want to make a difference, and like me will still drive their 2005 Hondas rather than a 2017 Lambo!

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Thanks for the informative post.

I respect your background and expertise in the space but not sure what in my post you are disagreeing with?

Hiya,

While I no longer post here in general, I do have a concussion-related tidbit I wanted to shoehorn into some thread or other, for those who might care. It's simply that one of the better regional hospitals in the area -- Emerson Hospital in Concord, with a second office in Westford -- has a whole concussion-oriented practice.

It turns out there's even a BU connection.

Emerson Hospital - Cantu

Dr. Robert Cantu’s decades of experience in diagnosing and treating concussion is unparalleled. His patients have included athletes young and old, student and professional, including many sports stars like the Bruin’s Patrice Bergeron.


Dr. Cantu’s interest in head injuries began on local playing fields in the 1970s; when he served as a team physician for Acton High School football. By 1986, he had authored an article that described the first return-to-play guidelines and today he has authored over 400 publications. His commitment to the clinical problem of treating concussions has never wavered and continues today in his role as Medical Director and Director of Clinical Research at the Cantu Concussion Center.


In addition to overseeing treatment at the center, Dr. Cantu is a neurosurgeon at Emerson Hospital and a Clinical Professor of Neurology and Neurosurgery and Co-founder of the CTE Center at Boston University School of Medicine.

robertweathers said:

Thanks for the informative post.

I respect your background and expertise in the space but not sure what in my post you are disagreeing with?

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Not exactly anything you said, to be honest. I read too much into what you said...

It was an overreaction on my part, sorry!

You comment was reminding me of the comments that I do very often hear, that pharma companies and all of the scientists in research only want to make drugs for the huge windfall of cash coming to them. Further, they'd actually prefer that you NOT get well so that you keep buying their pills.

My facebook friends rail on the "cancer treatment industry". Yes, some of the big pharma bean counters may actually want that. But not the people doing the work!

You weren't saying that, I realize.
Just a rant from me, a guy who stayed up until 2AM last night writing a grant proposal.