Was letting Sheard and Long walk a mistake?

I don't understand where this bias comes from that makes people assume every personel change is a 'move' made by the team. There's a player on the other side of every deal and if he doesnt want to be here or he wants to play somewhere else for whatever reason there's no deal.

Jared Odrick must have a serious injury or be completely washed up. I know they brought him in for a look in the summer and then nothing.

I doubt we win that game with those two, I liked them but they weren't amazing players.

luuked said:

And so the fabrication of myths begins.. suddenly people pull random names out of their asses in terms of a potential JG trade that was by all official accounts never a consideration.

Click to expand...

Begins? This has been going on for years. It's either the guy some schmuck thinks they could have gotten in trade. Or the guy or guys some moron has convinced himself we could have traded for the picks to draft. And this will keep happening for as long as both Brady an Garoppolo are on the roster

luuked said:

And so the fabrication of myths begins.. suddenly people pull random names out of their asses in terms of a potential JG trade that was by all official accounts never a consideration.

Click to expand...

Ok dude. Don't try your crap with me.

Jimmy G for pick 12 + more was reported by many. Barnett went 14th. We worked him out.

This forum has turned into mega homers vs. chicken littles. I may need to peace for a bit.

NFL Rumors: Patriots Work Out Derek Barnett Despite Lack Of First-Round Draft Pick

Questioning the Jimmy G trade as it pertains to the front seven personnel is a fair question. Name wasn't pulled out of my ass. If you think BB worked out so many top 25 prospects with no 1st round pick I don't know what to tell you.

How about try to engage in discussion instead of being an asshat to everyone around here?

Just putting my thoughts out there.

Less to do with personnel and more to do with the defensive game plan. imo.

In short I think they needed to go bigger. They may have wanted to flood the field with DB's and force Smith into some mistakes but they may have been better off using a 4 -3 or 4-2 and getting pressure on Smith to force the mistakes.

A.Butler, Branch, Brown, Flowers

Hightower, Van Noy

5 Db's.

1. The Pats at times had 6 DB's with a 5 man front (3 DL's + 2 LB's) vs a behemoth 2 or 3 TE sets (5 OL + 3 TE's). This just seemed to be too many big bodies on too many little bodies.


#1 - Brown doubled. #2 - Branch Doubled, #3 Hightower Doubled.

One OL peels off and gets to Van Noy in the second level allowing hunt to hit the gap.






2. They also ran a bunch of creative crossing routes with their speed guys. This seemed to cause confusion for the Pats D.

Presnap:


Postsnap:
I've circled Richards at the top. He was "athletic" enough to get coverage on the RB Hunt coming out of the backfield.

That's a lot of moving parts to decipher for a defense. Criss crossing routes, guy out of the backfield etc...

Snap to throw was approx. two seconds.


The X marks the reception. Van Noy is the LB trailing Tyreek Hill. He was forced OOB at the 38.

Simpelton said:

Begins? This has been going on for years. It's either the guy some schmuck thinks they could have gotten in trade. Or the guy or guys some moron has convinced himself we could have traded for the picks to draft. And this will keep happening for as long as both Brady an Garoppolo are on the roster

Click to expand...

That is simply incorrect regarding the Garoppolo trade rumors last offseason.

Jamie Collins would look good in this LB core at this point...

patsinthesnow said:

Ok dude. Don't try your crap with me.

Jimmy G for pick 12 + more was reported by many. Barnett went 14th. We worked him out.

This forum has turned into mega homers vs. chicken littles. I may need to peace for a bit.

Questioning the Jimmy G trade as it pertains to the front seven personnel is a fair question. Name wasn't pulled out of my ass. If you think BB worked out so many top 25 prospects with no 1st round pick I don't know what to tell you.

Click to expand...

I dont try any crap with you. It is you who is pulling trades magically out your ass and going by "widely reported".

It is just lazy and convenient scapegoating because people are just too ****ing dumb or stubborn to realize that just maybe JG really was never on the trade market and BB sincerely believes that having a great backup even for a single year is worth more than the promise and potential of a draft pick. But, yeah, sure lets go on believe sports media that conveniently needs clicks to survive over experts that actually have a friendship and years of experience with BB like e.g. Lombardi who said from the beginning that JG wont be traded.

luuked said:

I dont try any crap with you. It is you who is pulling trades magically out your ass and going by "widely reported".

It is just lazy and convenient scapegoating because people are just too ****ing dumb or stubborn to realize that just maybe JG really was never on the trade market and BB sincerely believes that having a great backup even for a single year is worth more than the promise and potential of a draft pick. But, yeah, sure lets go on believe sports media that conveniently needs clicks to survive over experts that actually have a friendship and years of experience with BB like e.g. Lombardi who said from the beginning that JG wont be traded.

Click to expand...

Incorrect.

Why did we work out a ton of first round players? Specifically some in the top 20?

If you cannot see that, stay out of my way and I'll stay out of yours.

The_Riddler said:

Jamie Collins would look good in this LB core at this point...

Click to expand...

You are a year too late. I think you meant to write this into the 2016 Seattle or @SF thread. Because pretty much everyone moved on from this after those games.

patsinthesnow said:

Why did we work out a ton of first round players? Specifically some in the top 20?

If you cannot see that, stay out of my way and I'll stay out of yours.

Click to expand...

??

We are often working out players out of reach. Go check the draft forum for the workout threads of previous years.. you wont believe what you will find.

@luuked
@patsinthesnow



Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Still hard to believe we gave up 42 to the chiefs off all teams but it's 1 game. If the saints drop 30 plus next week then maybe we can start getting concerned. I expect everything from the run defense and the pass defense to play well.

luuked said:

??

We are often working out players out of reach. Go check the draft forum for the workout threads of previous years.. you wont believe what you will find.

Click to expand...

see attached for a partial list

2017 NFL Draft visit tracker: 70+ prospects linked to the Patriots

And yes, it was speculated that we might trade JG or Butler for a 1st rounder.

The_Riddler said:

Jamie Collins would look good in this LB core at this point...

Click to expand...

For the $12M cap hit that he's carrying on the Browns right now, I'll still pass.

patsinthesnow said:

Incorrect.

Why did we work out a ton of first round players? Specifically some in the top 20?

If you cannot see that, stay out of my way and I'll stay out of yours.

Click to expand...

Belichick has to figure out who he's trading his 2020 5th round pick for.

The_Riddler said:

Jamie Collins would look good in this LB core at this point...

Click to expand...

No he wouldn't. Because he wouldn't do what the coaches asked him to unless it suited him to.

Didn't Long say he wasnt going to resign because he wanted to go somewhere where he could potentially start?

Tony2046 said:

Just putting my thoughts out there.

Less to do with personnel and more to do with the defensive game plan. imo.

In short I think they needed to go bigger. They may have wanted to flood the field with DB's and force Smith into some mistakes but they may have been better off using a 4 -3 or 4-2 and getting pressure on Smith to force the mistakes.

A.Butler, Branch, Brown, Flowers

Hightower, Van Noy

5 Db's.

1. The Pats at times had 6 DB's with a 5 man front (3 DL's + 2 LB's) vs a behemoth 2 or 3 TE sets (5 OL + 3 TE's). This just seemed to be too many big bodies on too many little bodies.


#1 - Brown doubled. #2 - Branch Doubled, #3 Hightower Doubled.

One OL peels off and gets to Van Noy in the second level allowing hunt to hit the gap.
View attachment 17964





2. They also ran a bunch of creative crossing routes with their speed guys. This seemed to cause confusion for the Pats D.

Presnap:
View attachment 17959

Postsnap:
I've circled Richards at the top. He was "athletic" enough to get coverage on the RB Hunt coming out of the backfield.

That's a lot of moving parts to decipher for a defense. Criss crossing routes, guy out of the backfield etc...

Snap to throw was approx. two seconds.
View attachment 17962

The X marks the reception. Van Noy is the LB trailing Tyreek Hill. He was forced OOB at the 38.
View attachment 17961

Click to expand...

I'm by no means anything close to an X and O's expert, but this game kind of reminds me of the Wildcat game in a sense. Off the top of my head that was 2008 (?)

Lots of well executed movement, plays that forced the defense an extra second to adjust, mismatch advantages with speed, misdirection plays, options, etc. Basically, catching the defense off guard.