Observations

patriot1136 said:

I'm wondering what specifically everyone is seeing from McClellin. I realize he's not a superstar but should be a solid role player for us. I was hoping after a full season in the system he may improve more this year. He just seemed a tad slow overall last year. I kind of picture him more like Nink in a hybrid OLB/DE role.

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I ted to agree, and that is how he was drafted and projected, but Chicago moved him out of it.
I actually think with Harris here and Nink gone, McClellin is freed up to do that, but its also possible we drop that role (it really was a new wrinkle last year, before that Nink was 98% DE) from the plans.

mgteich said:

Do you have an issue with Butler in the slot?

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Seems almost like a waste inside. Rowe needs to improve considerably to play a substantial amount of snaps outside.

Good write up. Although young, I'd like to see continued improvement from our interior O-line. Andrews and Mason can sometimes look overmatched in passing situations. I remember specifically the playoff game against Houston and again in the Super Bowl. If one of them went down, I'd really be worried.

Love the depth at RB, CB, Wr and DT.

From what I hear and read, Karras is having a really good camp. I think he takes the starting RG spot from Mason.

Peachhead said:

From what I hear and read, Karras is having a really good camp. I think he takes the starting RG spot from Mason.

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Oh, wow. I would be shocked if that happened, as Mason has been continuing to grow and progress. I think he's locked down the RG position, for sure.

I think it's much more likely that Karras is the first backup IOL. Either way, I think many of us have considered him a lock for awhile now, even if it was just due to a lack of adequate competition. The good news is that Karras seems to be exceeding expectations and winning that spot for a whole different reason, altogether.

patriot1136 said:

I'm wondering what specifically everyone is seeing from McClellin. I realize he's not a superstar but should be a solid role player for us. I was hoping after a full season in the system he may improve more this year. He just seemed a tad slow overall last year. I kind of picture him more like Nink in a hybrid OLB/DE role.

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IMO, superstars are overrated. I'd rather have solid, dependable players who execute BB's mantra: "Do your job."

luuked said:

Seems almost like a waste inside. Rowe needs to improve considerably to play a substantial amount of snaps outside.

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I think he is doing so.

AndyJohnson said:

I ted to agree, and that is how he was drafted and projected, but Chicago moved him out of it.
I actually think with Harris here and Nink gone, McClellin is freed up to do that, but its also possible we drop that role (it really was a new wrinkle last year, before that Nink was 98% DE) from the plans.

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IIRC, the Bears had McLellin at DE his first two seasons before moving him out to OLB in his third and then using him some at ILB in his fourth season. But that may have been due to roster changes (new players and injuries), as much as it was moving him around to see where he fit with scheme changes.

Last season, Nink dropping into coverage more often may have been partly related to the lack of coverage skills of some other LBs. OTOH, it seems to me that BB has always liked having a DE who can drop into coverage. It may become more opponent-specific this season, though.

AzPatsFan said:

Safety

The Pats had three sold Safeties going into TC and were looking for a 4th, and as PS players. Jonathan Richards has developed into that 4th starting quality Safety. David Jones may be the answer for a PS candidate even though currently nicked up.

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This is one of the nice stories in camp, to see a high pick in Jordan Richards (a personal binkie) have a great camp, show that he can be a factor in coverage even on a superstar TE and the good hands to pick off a few passes. He's one of the smartest and highest character guys on a team known for both. I'll be keeping an eye on him in preseason since he isn't likely to see the field in a regular game as long as the top 3 are healthy. They need a successor to Chung.

Peachhead said:

From what I hear and read, Karras is having a really good camp. I think he takes the starting RG spot from Mason.

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supafly said:

Oh, wow. I would be shocked if that happened, as Mason has been continuing to grow and progress. I think he's locked down the RG position, for sure.

I think it's much more likely that Karras is the first backup IOL. Either way, I think many of us have considered him a lock for awhile now, even if it was just due to a lack of adequate competition. The good news is that Karras seems to be exceeding expectations and winning that spot for a whole different reason, altogether.

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Agreed about Mason, on Mike Lombardi's podcast "GM Street" I've heard him opine that unknown to everyone else Mason was playing at a pro bowl level last year, and he keeps getting better. Plus, I found an article where Mason was listed as 5th in the list of "Most Improved Second Year Players". https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-the-10-most-improved-second-year-players (I know, I know, profootballfocus, but still..).

Nevertheless it is wonderful that Karras seems to have made a second year leap. At the very least, we have a competent IOL backup if one of the starters gets hurt.

...If anyone should be worried about their starting position, I would think it would be Andrews, but I've heard he looks bigger and stronger than last year also.

AzPatsFan said:

I think he is doing so.

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Huge if true.

Makes sense..

Perry Prediction: David Harris will wear green dot on Patriots defense

So, Thuney was injured and didn't finish yesterday, while Andrews is also nicked up? Solder also missed due to undisclosed reasons.

Although Karras has impressed, I still think we could add another IOL to the competition. Not a big name, but it's possible that a vet camp cut could be explored, unless someone else impresses.

luuked said:

Huge if true.

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It wouldn't surprise me if Rowe can handle shifty slot receivers. He posted amazing testing numbers at his Combine, including a 3.97 shuttle and 6.70 3-cone. In terms of pSPARQ overall athleticism scores, in the 2015 CB draft class, Rowe was 3rd best behind only Byron Jones (who's the same size as Rowe) and Darryl Roberts. Justin Coleman's scores were 14th best out of that class, BTW.

2017 UDFA Safety Jason Thompson's numbers were even better than Rowe's, and his pSPARQ was second only to Melifonwu.

supafly said:

So, Thuney was injured and didn't finish yesterday, while Andrews is also nicked up? Solder also missed due to undisclosed reasons.

Although Karras has impressed, I still think we could add another IOL to the competition. Not a big name, but it's possible that a vet camp cut could be explored, unless someone else impresses.

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Getting a decent vet camp cut seems unlikely to me. This was a very high-demand/short-supply year for IOL in free agency, and several guys got ++ contracts. So, I'm doubtful that teams will be letting any even halfway decent vet go at the end of their camps.

Also, it seems to me that the closer it gets to the regular season, the less interested the Pats would be in bringing in a guy who'd be brand new to the playbook, the OL calls, etc. If the injury to Thuney turns out to be serious, and the rest of the OL candidates in camp are actually dreck (difficult to say at this point), I don't think the Pats would wait until camp cuts from other teams.

However, with the way that the Pats trainers and medical staff have been managing guys with even relatively minor injuries since the disaster of 2015, I'm not ready to assume the worst every time a guy misses a day.

Anyway, Fleming has started and played full games for the Pats at both Guard spots. Jamil Douglas (6040/308) was a 2015 4th-round pick for the Fins, and started 6 games for them as a rookie. He's been in the Pats' system since last October, so he should be up-to-speed on the playbook and calls by now.

King, Croston or Jelks (NFI) could be PS depth for the IOL.

There's been some concern about the fact that JG has thrown 7 INTs over the course of 8 practices. For perspective, Bortles (ryhmes with chortles) threw 5 INTs in just ONE Jacksonville practice this week.

luuked said:

Seems almost like a waste inside. Rowe needs to improve considerably to play a substantial amount of snaps outside.

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I'm not sure that any of the current top-3 CBs will have anything like a permanent role covering the inside/slot. Last season, the Pats did quite a bit of specific man-matchups, depending on the opponent. Butler especially seemed to be shadowing certain guys regardless where they lined up. With Gilmore and Rowe, we may see even more of that as this season progresses.

Anyway, Rowe probably played at least a third of his 450 snaps at RCB in 2016, swapping inside-outside roles with Ryan pretty frequently (again, varying by opponent).